Kids are Baby Goats

Hear, hear, anya!

It's quite simple: the meaning of 'kid' is not limited to 'baby goat'.

It really is that simple. Anyone who doesn't want to use the word with its other meanings doesn't have to.

Imagine the field day yous all would've had in Shakespeare's time with him using all sorts of words and with meanings you'd never heard of before, some of them even subtle. Proper shocking his word usage was.

Oh Auntieflo I do agree with you. Kiddies and hubby just make me cringe.

Hear, hear from me too, Anya. Enough difficulties have been caused by PC limiting our language to avoid causing offence. Cutting out words simply because they're disliked by some is ridiculous.

Perhaps we should advocate the use of Newspeak.

Yes, well said Anya our language is very expressive and it evolves all the time. It also depends where you live in the country, for example the word "yobs" is just back slang for "boys" and started off in the East End.

Going back to the words "kids" and "children," ....... 40 or 50 years ago I'm sure most of us were happy being referred to as such even up to the age of 16 or 17 years old. These days, 13 year olds onwards become incensed if they are called children because they like to see themselves as young adults! Perhaps that's where things have gone wrong?

I don't mind either way, I just find 'kids' is easier and quicker when typing on here (etheltbags by the way, gnet gave me a new name)

'Kids' is (inoffensive ) slang, which should be kept for informal occasions if it has to be used at all. Should never be used for anything official, written or verbal, in my opinion.
Off at a tangent - does jinglwhatsit( where's the 'e'?) really send Valentines to her grandchildren? Is that normal?

In her teens one of my friends had a mysterious anonymous card every year. It turned out that her mother was sending them in case she didn't get any ... I was relieved mine hadn't done that.

I think the title of this thread is the wrong way round. It should be Baby Goats are kids. Which they are. But the words kids also means children. Anyone who doesn't want to use it with that meaning doesn't have to but they do have to tolerate other people's usage.

Either that or just be grumpy. Their choice.

I don't like the word 'kiddies' either Auntieflo; don't know why - I just don't.Our Grandchildren are 'Ma wee darlins' though I never really used lovey dovey terms with my own children, I wasn't really brought up that way.

I can live with "kids", but hate "kiddies" too. Only once have I remembered to say, when asked if I was kidding, "Right gender, wrong mammal". Usually don't think of it until too late.

Penstemmon, I agree with you about the gratingness of "ladies", possibly partly because so often it is paired with"men" - i.e. real people - rather than with "gentlemen". It seems to be considered rude to call us what we are, women!

Lately every man referred to in the media is a "gentleman", even if he's in the news as a wife-beating thug.
The police are also incapable of saying man or woman, they use male and female. Just something else to shout at the radio about.

My mother, who disliked Americans strongly always dismissed the use of 'kids' for children as an Americanism, so I think my dislike of it stems from her.

helmacd I'm sure she does send valentines to her grandchildren, as do I.

Don't see any problem with it at all. You ask if it's normal - yup, in our house it is . Do you think it's 'abnormal'? K

In a swerto yourfirstquestion, OP - yes.

I haven't actually tried this myself (can't be bothered), but I bet it would be quite difficult to find any dictionary that doesn't list something along the lines of 'A child or young person' as one of the definitions of 'kid'. In other words, what's the problem with it, apart from personal preference?

Did anyone watch Mary Beard's Pompeii programme last night?

She kept referring to the little children who were lost in that disaster as 'kids' and it sounded so demeaning and inappropriate.

I thought that too, Jalima.

I watched the programme, but didn't even notice the 'kids'!
What I did notice, however, was that she used colloquial / informal words and expressions throughout, presumably in keeping with her preferred presenting style.

Gettin' down wiv da kids

Or trying to make programmes that appeal to the plebs?

I used to know a very 'upper class' lady who literally looked down her nose at me when I referred to 'kids'.

According to her, it was a 'ghastly Americanism'.

Jalima: or to put it another way, trying to make programmes that potentially appeal to as many people as possible?

But putting off a lot of other viewers in the process MamaCaz

(Appealing to the lowest common denominator)

I can't say that I agree with you on this one, Jalima, but life would be very boring if we all agreed with each other all of the time

Personally, I think that the discomfort we feel when first hearing Mary's choice of language comes largely from the fact that it isn't what we are used to on factual TV programmes. I don't mind admitting that it gave me food for thought initially, but I quickly realized that I wouldn't bat an eyelid at that kind of presentation in any other format, such as a university lecture, so why should I care if it's on TV?

As for it "putting off a lot of other viewers in the process", well yes, perhaps, but I'm sure that there are still plenty (the vast majority?) of other programmes out there on a similar topic that will not offend their linguistic senses.

MamaCaz perhaps those to whom this folksy, colloquial type of presenting would appeal would not watch anyway - "Oxford Professor presenting a programme on Pompeii anyone?" "Or shall we watch something on Netflix instead?"

No brainer as Mary may say

It won't stop me watching her though

This is getting insulting silly, Jalima!

I know lots of people who (from the way they speak and their lack of formal education) you personally would probably dismiss as 'plebs' and / or 'the lowest common denominator', as you put it, but who are hugely interested in history and would definitely watch programmes like this.

But I'm off now - 'nuff said on the subject!