I couldn't believe my ears .....

granjura everybody should read a paper with political views they disagree with. It will help them understand those people who have different political views to their own.

Since the Indie closed there is not a single national paper being published in England that does not have political views which I profoundly disagree with. However all of them have columnists, special sections, general news reports that make excellent reading regardless of their political leanings.

I enjoy reading the Daily Mail. Nothing wakes me up faster in the morning than a good rant about something written in that paper. Completely sets me up for the day. On the other hand nothing ruins my day faster than reading a humourless self righteous rant by a champagne socialist published in the Guardian

I have cousins who have very bigoted views about people on benefit (who get everything they want apparently) and about refugees. I used to just try to correct them with facts conversationally (like - yes they can be refugees and have smartphones, being a refugee is nothing to do with poverty) but the last time I went I had a bad head cold and was a bit impatient and had one benefit bash too many. I said 'you really must stop reading the Sun' (which they get delivered). I then realised I had better cut the visit short before I said something worse.
I haven't heard from them since which is a shame as they can be good company but they never seemed to pick up on the fact that I found it unpleasant.
Some newspapers do seem to exist only to push an extreme right wing agenda and I don't think it unreasonable to judge people by their choice unless they buy several. They are helping to promote those views by funding them.
I will be voting out and I think there are cons as well as pros to immigration but racism and bigotry is more than that.
People are entitled to their own opinions and others are entitled to criticise those opinions.

I absolutely agree with Sunseeker. I also read the Daily Mail, but I am not a 'Daily Mail Reader'. I read it because, when you really go into it, a few (albeit very few) articles are well-balanced and rational. The rest, I am intelligent to disregard. I KNOW they are against immigration and I am sensible enough to use their views as the 'other side' when formulating my own.
I do get fed up with people assuming I'm racist and against just about everything because I read the Mail. I'm not and I do criticise it often, but that only serves to cement my own views. So, their irrationality, hopefully, makes me less irrational. Our reasons for having it in our house are pragmatic - it's easy to pick up and put down, is a tabloid, so you don't have to sit and 'read the paper' as such. That's all we want from a daily paper. We formulate our own views, using our own intelligence, experience and the good old interweb.

Jaycee has given the perfect reply- thanks.

Meant 'intelligent enough' to disregard in line three.

Immigration and racism are not the same. I worry about the number of people in the country. Nothing to do with their race, colour or religion. In recent years our small local town has lost a garage (15 houses) greengrocer (12 houses) butcher (10 houses). We live in a very rural area with very few immigrants but our local hospital wouldn't survive without staff from all over the world and with all the new houses and the sheer number of people we will need more qualified and skilled people from wherever they come from to care for us. I'm not sure how many care homes could survive without foreign staff. Maybe a different argument, but there is too much confusion between being anti more immigration and being racist.

Much of what is going on today with Brexit is similar to the late 1930's and latterly over the ERM and then whether Britain should join the EURO. Only this time the proletariat are actively involved. Fear of the unknown can have a devastating effect on people.

Before you speak out FIRST be sure who THEY are?

As Paster Martin Niemoller wrote in his poem.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

100 years ago people went around shaking with righteous indignation at fallen women and sexual improprieties, in the 60's drugs, mini skirts and the hair length of young men caused a lot of comment, now we have the fatties and tattooed to look down on and we elevate ourselves by despising the racists because we consider ourselves to be superior and without prejudice.

It is all a social construct and we are all just acting out what are the mores of our times, and filling time before we fill our coffins.

Whatever view you take, there is no lack on prejudice and there are merits on each side of every argument. For good or ill we have a lot more unmarried mothers than we used to (happy and not) we have a drug epidemic, half a nation of fatties and as many tattooed. Racists are just people that others define as such, due to lacking the same experience that causes the difference of opinion.

There really is very little moral high ground only human nature and all its frailties.

We are getting some very bigotted and judgemental views on the papers people read.

Well said Jackthelad, that poem is very pertinent and will be ever more so as events develop.
I would add that it is usually when people feel frightened they lash out, verbally or sometimes even physically.
At least we have a vote at present and I hope that everyone uses it.

In our family we read widely online and it is always interesting to see how wide the views are. It is helpful to know what is being said and why and there is always a reason for those opinions. Some articles are well written and well reasoned but others are not - 'twas ever thus!

I am a little concerned that the words: 'bigot', 'fascist', 'racist' are bandied about freely and frequently today to depict others as unacceptable and to shut down debate. If the recipients are otherwise decent, respectable, law abiding people it cannot be right to condemn them in such terms without considering why they have the views they hold.

Well said Sunseeker and MOnica. I am absolutely fed up with being judged by the paper I read. As if I don't have any intelligence and believe every word they write.
Being worried about immigration does not make me racist!

I don't like racism we need immigration I myself live where immigration is very high where in some areas it is made obvious we are not welcome, talking to people which I must admit are mainly of the older generation a lot of what they say could be seen as racism is fear about overloading of our schools some of our local schools are mainly made up of children who's first language is not English and class sizes are getting bigger it must be hard for teachers , our local hospitals are being downgraded despite a massive increase of people , I welcome immigration on both sides and will not listen to blatant racism but I can understand the fear factore ,if I offend anyone that is not my wish just putting my feeling across

If fear cannot be expressed it builds and then it can come out violently so it is wise to be very careful to think before speaking. We need debate which is why, as Lilyflower says, the terms such as bigot, fascist and racist are not helpful as they merely serve to shut down debate. I read in a book of sayings "A man who resorts to insults shows his arguments have run out" It says far more about the person who resorts to such abuse than anyone else and underlines their lacking.

PC has a great deal to answer for and often skews what is being said because assumptions are made. I went to a lecture many years ago where the lecturer was talking about listening. He said, " Never assume because it makes an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me' "! Listening is so important and is about what is not being said as much as what is being said.

This country is full of immigrants who have mainly integrated and it has not caused problems since many are even more proudly British now than the' natives'. It only causes problems when the immigrants fail to integrate and instead seek to impose their values and customs, law courts and religion on the 'native' inhabitants. This causes problem not the least of which is FEAR!

The papers we read are only a small part of what we do and who we are.

Just to clarify that the country has historically always had immigration most of whom have historically integrated well. It is only when integration does not happen that problems arise.

My cousins have friends of all nationalities and colours and his job involves training people from all countries so I don't think they are racist so much as bigoted out of ignorance and, as they are not particularly stupid, I do think it is the influence of what they read and watch on TV. They are the kind of people that will believe the Channel 5 programmes obsessively demonising anyone who is amongst the least fortunate.
Unfortunately propaganda works. Not everyone that reads newspapers which have a disproportionate amount of hate speech will absorb it but enough people do to make it a problem.
It is not judgmental or bigoted to worry about propaganda.

Jaycee it certainly is not judgemental to worry about propaganda. My point is about that terminology mentioned being used instead of discussing or debating. So important to keep talking and exchanging thoughts and ideas.

Just reread your post Jaycee and it makes me wonder if he works with such a wide group what it is that makes him come to the conclusions he has and have you asked him to explain and help you understand him? It could be very interesting and perhaps even make your cousin think too, you never know!

I was staying with an old friend of mine from college a couple of years ago, she lives in a picture postcard village which has some tucked away 'social housing', so as not to spoil the views you understand! A drug addict and his partner had been given a home in 1, as with the nature of the beast he and his girlfriend were prone to public skirmishes with some choice language from time to time. This incensed my friend to such a degree I began to fear for her mental health! I have always believed that there but for the grace of God could go anybody (my friend herself takes a drug on a daily basis for depression which she has begged her GP not to stop and also likes a glass of wine!),. I expressed my view in an effort to diffuse her anger, but sadly it had the opposite effect and she ended up screaming at me that all these people should be put somewhere together so as not to upset the lives of others or in fact line up and shot!! I was totally stunned and have not been to stay with her again.....

Yes, Sunseeker, I am tired of DM readers being treated as idiots because they read it. I was taught in my English class in school, "to read between the lines". My friend gets the Telegraph which I read after her. They are similar. I wouldn't by the rubbish Mirror or the Sun. I suppose everyone has to be a Guardian reader to fit some peoples approval.

Synonymous Your comment about to assume makes an ass out of you and me reminded me of a more down to earth comment I heard "assumption is the mother of all f**k ups"!

Sunseeker not quite my own style, but to the point!

Synonymous - not my style either and I did consider inserting a different word but it felt as if it had lost something! I did insert asterisks though