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Strip Off!

(158 Posts)
Jalima Thu 25-Aug-16 11:17:01

I sometimes wear long cotton trousers and top plus a hat on the beach; I like a bit of sunshine for Vitamin D but prefer to cover up than use excessive amounts of suncream.

If I go to France will I be made to strip off to my swimsuit by armed police in order to respect good morals?
Or is it just women wearing headscarves?

I know that France is jittery and for good reason, but is this the right way forward?
Will this not exacerbate an already tense situation?

ninathenana Thu 25-Aug-16 11:47:32

When I saw that in the press yesterday I thought it was an obvious breach of human rights. There are those who for various reasons don't want to be as exposed as they would be in a swim suit. With my shape I would never be seen in a swim suit. So I would be banned from the beach. Outrageous !!!

tanith Thu 25-Aug-16 12:03:13

Just ridiculous whatever next? There could be numerous reasons for covering up.

varian Thu 25-Aug-16 12:09:42

Unless it's a designated nudist beach, women should wear any kind of clothes that cover the bits that need covering.

Obviously for some that might just be a bikini but for others a long kaftan and sunhat - or a burkini.

The only covering which should not be allowed in public places is face covering - unless you are actually riding a motorbike and wearing a face-protecting helmet.

sunseeker Thu 25-Aug-16 12:20:53

There is a picture in the papers today of a group of women wearing burquas happily paddling off a UK beach, no-one appears to be objecting. Whilst I can sort of understand where the French are coming from, making a woman undress is surely a breach of human rights. How much clothing was she made to remove?

millymouge Thu 25-Aug-16 12:35:17

Why can you not wear what you want, I really cannot understand it. Some people just do not want to bare it all and personally I don't blame them. It is definitely a breach of human rights making a woman remove some clothing in front of everyone.

Gracesgran Thu 25-Aug-16 12:35:25

The French seem to be using the law against overt religious symbols but the Muslim community keeps being told the wearing of burkas is cultural not religious. They really need to think about what they are doing rather than trying to satisfy the lowest common denominator in the local population. I agree we don't all want to uncover for all sorts of reasons. It is indeed outrageous, ridiculous and, in the long run self defeating. We are living in a madly precarious world.

granjura Thu 25-Aug-16 12:42:25

What a dreadful way to deal with fear- shame on the French. Shame on those on the beach who gawped and the many who clapped.

granjura Thu 25-Aug-16 12:51:33

A good article from the International Humanist and Ethical association:

Secularity in France is far too often used to vaguely hide islamophobia and racism against French citizens of North African origins Maghreb- ex French colonies.

And the hypocrisy is rife - 20 % of French children are privately educated in Catholic schools which are subsidised by the State- so much for secularism.

The National Front in the South of France, including Nice- is full of secondo and thirdo immigrants of Spanish and Italian origin- who have found their place in society. Remember Arthur Miller's 'View from the Bridge'.

When I used to teach and host for a French School of English as Foreign language- I had loads of students from Nice. Then one of the mothers phoned me to ask if I could give priority to their friends and family - and went on to explain that they wanted to come to us because they wanted to ensure they came to a white family- as some of the students were hosted in 'brown' ones and they just didn't want this to happen to their kids. I told them I was not going to become the official host for the National Front- and put the phone down. I was shaking.

DD1 did a year with Erasmus in Marseilles - and she confirmed how strong the NF was there too- same with friends in Antibes and Cannes.

pensionpat Thu 25-Aug-16 12:53:52

In 1975 I holidayed in France and 1 day we went to an open-air swimming pool. I never exposed either my arms or legs at that time because I was covered in psoriasis. So I wore my usual long-sleeved top and trousers. I preferred to be uncomfortably hot to exposing my skin. I was asked to leave because I wasn't wearing a swimsuit. I was devastated but wouldn't show it.

I never normally comment about politics, but could there be link between this hard line of the French, which includes banning the burkha and the terrible terrorist attacks

granjura Thu 25-Aug-16 12:55:56

In the meantime huge congratulations to Scottish Police, who has approved the hijab for their police recruits- in order to encourage more diversity and women into the force- as they did before all over UK with the Sikh turban.

There are bad apples everywhere- but I have massive admiration for the British police- diverse and who are taught to diffuse situations rather than enflamme- and are generally VERY good at it- and where those who hold racist views are weeded out- unlike in the US or France- where they are positively encouraged to be confrontational and target those whoe are 'different'. British police are the best in the whole wide world.

For those who live in France or interested in French culture- have you ever seen the fabulous film, by Matthieu Kassovitz 'La Haine' (the hatred)?

Christinefrance Thu 25-Aug-16 12:59:30

Most swimming pools here in Limousin will not allow men in wearing boxer type swimming shorts, they have to wear speedo type ones ( probably not Tom Daley ones though ) Apparently to prevent fall out.

Lillie Thu 25-Aug-16 14:47:17

There's a protest outside the French Embassy in London this afternoon with women wearing all types of beachwear! Do we really need to get that involved?

granjura yes, I find "La Haine" gripping. It's a popular choice for students to discuss.

Nelliemoser Thu 25-Aug-16 15:01:48

pensionpat your point about your skin is exactly why this is so dreadful. I have a couple of friends who cannot cope with much sun at all without getting bad rashes.
Perhaps the Non muslim french woman should join them on a beach all covered up in onesies.
Maybe the goverment have had specific threats?

petra Thu 25-Aug-16 15:03:08

Obviously the French can't say: ok, all the Muslims must now leave France, but we are going to make it very uncomfortable for you to live here.

TerriBull Thu 25-Aug-16 15:51:57

I found the images quite shocking, the poor woman was wearing what looked like a pair of leggings, a kaftan type top and a scarf quite stylishly tied on her head, not too unlike those that woman who have had cancer might fashion to cover hair loss. Not everyone wants to get everything out, even on extremely hot days. I can remember being on beaches in France seeing quite withered looking arses just hanging there, divided only by a cheese wire type thong, not a pleasant sight, but each to their own. I feel the French are tying themselves in knots just at the moment, understandably they have suffered a spate of atrocities, but banning the burkini isn't going to help social cohesion. I think individuals must be allowed to decide how much they wish to uncover, cultural and personal sensitivies will inevitably come into play on a beach. I always keep a sarong around my waist until Im ready to take a dip and thinking about it I think I even sat round the pool on a winter holiday last year wearing 3/4 length leggings and a kaftan top on one occasion, I'm sure I'd have felt "picked on" if some official had told me I was inappropriately overdressed. I hate the burka and niqab and do feel the wearers not only look like fish out of water, they are an overt barrier to assimilating in a western culture and de personalise the wearer.

suzied Thu 25-Aug-16 16:05:18

Is it any different from religious police in Iran fining women for not covering up? Why don't they just make masks for men so they aren't led astray by the sight of a woman's arm or hair. I like to wear a sun hat and baggy top on the beach as I don't want to be exposed to the sun. Would I be told to take it off?

LullyDully Thu 25-Aug-16 17:01:29

I am disgusted by what is going on in France. I also read about a plane stopped because 3 sibling, young passengers were Muslims. They were accused of being IS members and taken off the plane. They were interrogated for an hour .

This is madness, they do not have to wear a stitched on yellow star but may just as well.wear a yellow moon and star!

Islam is one of the major World religions and Muslims are 'People of the Book' as are Christians and Jews.

felice Thu 25-Aug-16 17:01:53

I used to wear a head to toe wet suit for Winsurfing and Canoeing of the NE of Scotland, The woman on the beach was wearing what I would probably be happy to wear now.
The ones who should be banned from beaches, cafes and Promenades are the beer bellied, hairy-arsed sleazebags in Speedos which they cannot see(or their feet), who just want to drool over girls young enough to be their daughters and grandaughters.
I have got so tired of this from French friends(male) who seem to think they have some sort of right to decide what a Woman wears.
If I had been that woman I would have independantly called the police and had them charged with harrassment.
Rant over.

granjura Thu 25-Aug-16 18:04:20

Lillie- I am going away- otherwise I would be tempted to go to Nice and organise an event with women of all ages and nationalities, with or without religion, wearing leggings and t-shirts and a hat or scarf- or burkinis, in support.

It is VERY VERY hot down in the South of France at the moment and very dangerous for the skin. A young friend who works in Cap d'Agde told me today it was 40C without a puff of wind.

Petra, those Muslims in France are mostly French citizens born and bred, second, third and more generations- from ex French colonies. Where are they supposed to go???

If I was a French Muslim, I personally would go and live and work in the UK.

gettingonabit Thu 25-Aug-16 18:28:50

This story, with picture, was in the Mail yesterday. The picture shows a woman wearing black trousers, a loose black top, and over that another cotton top, which she was in the process of removing, under the watchful eye of the police. This was the South of France-Nice or Cannes I think. She was wearing a scarf around her head. She was obviously distressed. There was nothing remotely "burkhini-ish about her dress. She could easily have been a western woman.

Jalima Thu 25-Aug-16 18:55:22

I think the article says that the lady is third generation French.
The police look like Nazis, all standing around one woman forcing her to undress *to respect good morals*

So good morals in France entail stripping off on the beach confused

I must admit that seeing a woman in a full burkah does make me feel rather uncomfortable, I think seeing facial expressions is important and I do wonder if it is their choice or has been forced upon them.

But this to my mind is an over-reaction by the French and could be counter-productive and make for very uneasy multi-cultural relationships.

suzied Thu 25-Aug-16 19:22:06

I think for security reasons we should ban the face covering ( is that the burqua?) but anything else, scarves etc should be up to the individual. I often wear a scarf on my head but not to spare men from lusting after me (Lol)

Jalima Thu 25-Aug-16 19:40:51

So does the Queen suzied!

granjura Thu 25-Aug-16 19:40:56

I agree- and it would be much easier to stop full face covering if we were more tolerant about scarves, etc. Eyes and smiles are such an important part of communication and trust.