Strip Off!

The burka is associated with Islam, so is religious whether it is an actual requirement of Islam or not.

There's danger of an outbreak of consensus here. I don't believe it's appropriate for faces to be covered in the workplace, school or if the individual is a defendant or witness at any court hearing.
The culture in this country has placed emphasis on forming impressions of honesty, mood etc on observing body language, especially watching facial expressions. A Magistrate friend resigned after being told she could not ask women to remove facial covering. She felt that as she wouldn't take evidence from anyone wearing a balaclava for example, because of the importance of making judgements about the evidence being given by watching the witness or defendant carefully, she wasn't being unreasonable about facial covering.

Can workplaces require their staff be appropriately dressed as the employer sees fit?

Are there state schools that allow the burka?

Whitewave when Nicki Morgan was minister for education, she passed the buck by saying it was up to each school to decide. And that each school could reflect the local culture.

It's the culture of the country that decrees ( Muslim countries) how women should dress, and not the religion.Afghanistan is different to Iran for instance.I may be stating the 'bleeding obvious' here, but it's the culture surrounding women and not the religion.

Which am not sure that France 'gets'.

Not easy is it. Personally I would ban the burka in the workplace and schools too- but allow any other kind of head covering. In France, girls are not allowed to wear any kind of scarf- even a brightly coloured one- at all. And women cannot teach with any kind of head covering at all.

The hypocrisy is clear though- there are still plenty of private catholic schools run by nuns in France- about 20% of children are educated in such schools- with crucifixes all over, statues of Mary and Jesus and Saint Francis and others. These schools are very cheap- as they are heavily subsidised by the State!

31 May 2015 ... Yes! There is no mention of Burqa in the Quran but there is mention of dressing modestly. And some Muslim women find complete modesty in wearing Burqa, it is to please Allah. This also rids them of stressing over looking good when going outside as well as focus on other aspects of life such as education

Muslim women wearing a burqua often have their faces beautifully madeup.
And at home many wear normal clothing, but modest. Sometimes even jeans. According to our DiL who lives in Kuwait, and knows Saudi Arabia too.
I'll have to ask her whether they ever go swimming in the sea there, and if so what they wear.

Yes, workplaces can impose a dress code. Wasn't there a case recently where a young woman took a company to court for insisting she word high heels ......and she lost?

Wore

It's not an easy question is it 'to ban or not to ban'

It is dependant on the freedom of the woman to choose but this is where the subject falls down. There are countries, religious sects, pure male domination and who can forget the likes of Daesh who force women into wearing the niqab/burka. The burka/niqab is 'hated' by some Muslim women and indeed men but the oppression in some countries or by certain Muslim sects means the conformity to wear the burka/niqab.

If you knew you could be subjected to a beating if you refused to wear the burka/niqab what would you do? I know I would wear one. The burka is nothing more than male domination and women have no choice. It is the choice of men/Imams/Muslim Leaders who put their own slant as to how the teachings of the Quran are read and women must in all things subject themselves to their wishes.

The French ban on the burkini is taking it possibly too far as the burkini, like the hijab, does not cover the face and one would presume is therefore down to the choice of the woman. Had it been at the dictatorship of an overtly religious male then you would not see her face that would be veiled too.

There is another spanner to throw into the mix and I have mentioned this before on a similar thread. My friends have discussed all this before and my Muslim friends think there is a rise in the community for the wearing of more traditional Muslim clothing and male domination . These are women who have left behind many years ago depressive countries but are not going around blinkered to the fact over the last few years there just feels like there is an intake of new people who are trying to get their way within the Muslim community, not integrating and it causes them concern.

France maybe in the news at the moment but there are plenty of other countries whom I mentioned earlier such as Switzerland, Italy, Belgium, Netherlands have banned the burka/niqab. Germany has just stopped short of banning but plenty of other countries are debating the banning of them. Turkey, Syria, Tunisia have banned ' the veil' and the hijab is not allowed to be worn in some cases I believe.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1195052/Why-I-British-Muslim-woman-want-burkha-banned-streets.html

Totally agree with Saira Khan

there is a rise in the community of the wearing of more traditional Muslim clothing and male domination
Exactly what jasmin Alibhai- Brown says. She is asking, what happened, we never saw this 20 yrs ago.

petra

I am no fan hers but I remember she too has written on the subject and I have seen her 'quite vocal' discussing this on t.v .

Yes petra There have been Muslims in the UK for donkeys years; but the Burka was it seems only worn by Arabian women visiting with their husbands and were a real novelty
Now suddenly the burka is everywhere and I can't quite grasp the reasoning behind it. Were Muslim women becoming immodest, so it was thought necessary to introduce greater covering?

It's the same in Malaya, where we used to work in the 60s when women wore casual long frocks, no hair covering. Now many in the burka.
The Sunnis are forcing out Shiites?

POGS for many years I wasn't a fan, and she can still annoy me. But on this subject she knows what she is talking about and is more than angry than many of 'us'.

Puts tin hat on for this comment.
I believe that over the past 20 yrs a great number of illiterate, ignorant, Muslim men have settled in our country. Instead of integrating they go back to their home country and marry one of their first cousins who is usually as uneducated as he is. Then these pitiful young women are used as domestic skivys for his family.

Dressing modestly in Islam seems to be about covering arms and legs.

Agree with Saira Khan.
The link is very good.
It hadn't really occured to me before that other muslims dont want the burka either.

I was on the sea yesterday nearby was a Muslim family the women were fully covered with headscarves and having a brilliant time in the water upto their waist getting covered with the waves the husbands were playing ball in the sea the kids were squealing in the waves one husband smiled at me nodding towards a little girl said with great pride ' my daughter' I smiled back No one took the slightest bit of notice everyone was too busy enjoying themselves

What about a nun are they going to be frogmarched off the beach or someone with a skin problem It's a huge violation of human rights If I was in France I d put my best harem pants on a scarf round my head and sit with them

obieone so as long as your arms and legs are covered does that mean that that great temptress, the hair, is ok to show?

By the way the lady on the French beach with the armed cops surrounding her was not wearing a burka she had on a headscarf and some blue body covering No matter ne has a right to tell people what to wear in public
what would happen if a Sikh was on the beach in a turban ( could be covering a gun ) would he be a target No I don't think so

live and let live enjoy our differences bloody boring old world when we are all cloned

BlueBelle The French don't have a problem with Sikhs.

I know they don't Petre just offering an alternative ie nuns Etc or even this one that made me smile on a Scottish beach

petra,it seems so, yes.