Passing

Funnily enough, although I don't like 'passed' I don't mind 'passed away'.

The french people here used "décédé" ie deceased, about a person. But when our neighbour's dog died she said "il est mort".
I use 'died' for people. I think 'passed' implies that they've gone somewhere else where we can still keep in touch. Which is another subject.

I am plain speaking being a Yorkshire Lass so I would always say some-one has died - bit blunt but that's me. I would however respect the way others speak about death

I just think passed sounds terribly twee.

I would use /have used 'died' /'dead'. If writing a condolence message I would probably say I am sorry for the loss of your xxx if i did not know the person very well. If it was a close friend/family member I would probably say 'I am sorry to hear of xxxx death' etc.
My DD when explaining her FiL's death to her (quite young) DDs explained that he had died and that was because his turn to live was over and he was making space for a new baby somewhere!!

'Fallen off their perch' 'kicking up daises', 'gone to a better place.'

Use whatever words you feel comfortable with. Many people have difficulty coming to terms with death, and if it helps to soften it for them, in any way, what's the harm?

The 'sorry' bit troubles me. I wasn't sorry when my dad died. I was glad his suffering ceased. So for his sake I was glad he died. I still felt the grief and I still miss him twenty-three years on, but I would have been very sorry to see him continuing to suffer as he had been. Even my mum was relieved his suffering was over.

When a friend's father died recently, I asked her how her mum was. Friend's dad had been ill for a long time. Friend said of her mother: "She was ready". Exactly.

Which makes all the dramatic public grief for the late Thai king seem very weird to me. The man has been seriously unwell for years. Everyone knew he was going to die soonish. I guess I just don't get melodramatic outpourings of emotion about unsurprising, unshocking, completely expected events.

Don't misunderstand me. Think about it. These are difficult things to talk about but they are not difficult things to be realistic about. Oddly, I think people are getting less realistic about death as they see less of it.

So I think I'm deciding not to be sorry for natural deaths. One can still sympathise with the turmoil of feelings people feel. I think cards or words that express "sincere sympathy" are better than saying one's "sorry". Perhaps it means the same. It just doesn't feel right to me for deaths that are expected.

Sudden, unexpected death is different. Then there is shock to deal with too.

kicked the bucket !

Slightly at a tangent, but what I really hate is reading a headline that "Joe Bloggs dies". To me, dies is an current, ongoing, "doing" thing. Joe Bloggs will only die once, and therefore it should be "Joe Bloggs had died" or "Joe Bloggs is dead".

Unless, of course, Joe Bloggs is an actor in a play whose character gets killed, and then he dies every performance.

It is such an irritation of mine!

Oh, Hurdy Gurdy that one annoys me too. I thought it was just me!

I have no objection to Passed Away, don't mind Passed Over, although I do have a vision of the dead person waving furiously from across the Styx. I hate Passed or Passing though and don't really know why.

What I really hate is any reference to falling asleep. They're not asleep - they're DEAD. They're not going to wake up again. Ever!

I think it's ok to say "Sorry for your loss" Bags. My friend mum has just died. 93 and definitely ready to go. After many years of increasingly full time caring for her, the hole she's left in my friend's life is enormous and it's unexpectedly hit her like a brick. So I am sorry for my friends loss and the emotional upheaval she's going through, but not that her mother has at last achieved her demise. Does that make sense?

But isn't there an issue here of censorship and not accepting the full use of our language? It's a bit like the swearing thread.

Do we want a language which is rich and diversified or precise or concise? Because if we start taking issue with phrases like 'passed on' or even 'kicked the bucket' and simply revert to the precise 'died' then IMO that's removing the opportunitiy for diversity and richness as well as context.

Likewise with swearing. Generally we'd all agree that the kind of almost monotonous overuse use of 'f***' that is favoured by the semi-literate bears no relation to the a well-stocked vocabulary of swear words, use strategically, is actually a healthy indicator of other verbal abilities.

I must be too lay back, I am happy with any word that suits the situation and helps the bereaved with their loss.

There is a difference between reporting or discussing a death in a public situation and speaking directly and privately to the bereaved.

GrandMattie - Yes our genes live on through our children -- but we all know of the works of Shakespeare , but how many can name his children ?

When my dh died I didn't mind what people said in the way of sympathy except for "sorry for your loss." For some reason that expression makes me very upset and depressed. I've only heard it in recent years.

Good post Anya. DH and I use popped his clogs or fallen off his perch. I think sorry for your loss is something that the Irish use. I'm about to compose a letter of condolence for yet another bereavement . I know the last two can't have been anything but a blessing for all concerned.

DH uses the Naval expression - Passed Over the Bar.
At gatherings of old shipmates a list is read of those who have 'passed over the bar'.

If a comedian 'dies' on stage it usually means that they fail to get a response from the audience. no laughs.

Passed to me means en exam. I' m leaving instructions for my funeral which warn that if anyone says Passed, or puts me in a shiny coffin with plastic handles, or has me cremated, I shall come back and haunt them.

Anya I might use all kinds of colloquial phrases when not talking directly to someone recently bereaved or when talking about a celeb who I knew of but did not know e.g. I see Jean Alexander popped her cloggs but would be a bit odd to say, to a friend whose partner / loved on had died, " My condolences on Mike kicking the bucket'

Which is why I mentioned context pen

Yes, your post makes perfect sense, nfk. Thank you. Isn't it funny (good) how the way someone else might put something often shines a light. Saying "I'm sorry for your loss" is focussing on those still alive and what they are feeling (or presumed to be feeling) and not being sorry that someone who was ready to die has died.

I like your post too, anya. I don't really mind what other people say but there are a number of expressions in use that I wouldn't be comfortable using myself. People use whatever comes into their minds at the time. Which is fine.

'sorry for your trouble' is a phrase I have heard at the few Irish funerals/wakes I have attended. As long as the sentiment is genuine I guess the words may be less important. Amongst my non-English family it is the custom to greet the bereaved with a positive comment about the deceased, " She was always kind to me" "he was a good son" etc. etc. as a way of comfort to the family.

As I've become old and grandma-ish I have found that at funerals I'm favouring the wordless quick hug. Never used to be touchy feelie. It must be my age. Like WB when writing condolence cards I try to write the phrases the recipient will like. Passed on to those with a strong faith and so on.

Now off to look up the names of Shakespear's children!

I know his only son was called Hamnet and he died young, and that neither of his two daughters had children. So he did not pass on (!) his genetic genius.