Brexit is it final??

Do you really think Tony Blair puts this country first? He doesn't. He didn't over the Iraq War and he isn't this time either. He is a proven liar, why would anyone believe a word he says? He is yesterday's man and he was Bush' puppet. He lines his own pockets and he has made himself a millionaire giving talks about Iraq. Horrible, deceitful man that he is. Hundreds of our young men died because of what Tony Blair did.

Turning it on its head. Had we voted to remain and the leavers wanted another referendum, would we even be having this conversation? I think not.
Whatever had been decided there would be people who wernt happy.
We have decided to leave so must concentrate on the future now, not what might have been.

Good post Yorkshiregirl agree all the way.

railman so because the Scottish people voted to stay within the UK Mrs Sturgeon wants another Referendum (and probably another, and another until the people 'get the right answer'! Would anyone stand for that say if it was a local election, or a football match result, or a vote on anything come to that?

Mrs Sturgeon thinks she is 'Queen of Scotland' which of course she isn't. Some might think she is putting her country first, but she isn't. She is doing this for personal benefit imo. She knows that if Scotland breaks away from the UK they will get no financial support from the rest of the UK. None of the EU leaders will discuss Scotland joining the EU, they will only speak to the PM of the UK. Scotland on its own will find itself with no support from the EU or the UK. How then will they manage their finances?

The Referendum to leave the EU result is FINAL! People had their chance to vote, if they didn't and preferred to go to Glastonbury, or stay at home in protest, then they have only got themselves to blame for the result.

I am happy with the result and eventually once we have broken away from the EU the money we sent over there, be it in daily contributions, overseas aid, demands and fines, can be spent here in UK, on our own people and any EU immigrants that chose to come with us and leave the EU.

We have our own 'Brightest and Best' and we do not need to poach other countries' youngsters, which I personally think is totally the wrong thing to do. How are these countries going to improve if we steal their best people?

Railman - yes, I think we should have a movement to rejoin the EU. In twenty years time. The present Union is flawed in so many ways and it needs a shock such as its now getting to regenerate and renew itself. Ideally, it should be dissolved and started again.

rail if May continues towards to try to override Parliament in the Brexit negotiations when they begin then the answer to your question is "yes"

Cindersdad, I voted OUT and I have no regrets! All the lies and fake news that was in the papers and on the media were to blame for people voting with me. Maybe if they had told the truth there would have been a different result.

It has always been the aim of those who pushed for the EU that finally a new country would be formed called 'United States of Europe'. Even our own PM Churchill thought it might be a good idea. What I could not stand was all the denials because there is no doubt that is what they were aiming for, and our Governments past and present, knew what the aim was. So we were lied to over and over again. The EU even tried to take credit for peace in Europe, which imo was down to NATO and the United Nations, not the EU.

All the doom and gloom forecasts have not come true, in fact quite the opposite has happened. Yes, there may be some tweaks that need to be made, but on the whole the future for the UK looks bright. Lots of positive things happening these days, people investing money in Great Britain and moving jobs here.

I think it is time to support the PM and stop talking this country down. Mr Junker, Mr Hollande and Mrs Merkel have all now shown their true colours and revealed what the EU is aiming for. They wanted to be one big blob of 'sameness' answering to and being ruled by,the 'elite' in Brussels.

whitewave, so if this it isn't necessarily what it should mean in an open democracy is true, then are we in danger of suggesting May's position does not reflect a democratic will of all the people.

The results of the referendum last year seem to suggest a very lose 'union', and more of a federal arrangement in the UK.

However, I expect, after March, a new referendum on independence will take place in Scotland - how will the sovereignty position fare then I wonder.

Given that we live in a democracy - should we now not start a movement to join the EU, and even if it takes 20 years, we will be able to join eventually.

This was the approach that Farage and his team worked on for years to levee the EU.

Now is the time to start the movement to rejoin - maybe even invent a new political party for just that purpose. Any takers out there?

rail only if that is the interpretation of Mays government. They have decided what they mean by the will of the poeple and it isn't necessarily what it should mean in an open democracy.

I haven't read all of this thread but have always been puzzled at this horror at the idea of another referendum. The Leavers won last time, so they will win next time, unless people have changed their mind (in the light of more information?); in which case it will still be democratic but Remain this time..

Well said durhamjen - I wonder why our beloved Government are scared of trying to get the best deal for the UK.

Seems to me at the moment that the anything will do brigade, since we're leaving the EU doesn't have a plan for afterwards.

I'me sure the front page item in today's Daily Telegraph is bordering on the questionably legal.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/26/theresa-may-poised-announce-end-free-movement-new-eu-migrants/

From Gina Miller's campaign to get parliament to have a meaningful vote on article 50.

"The government has promised to deliver “a good deal for Britain” in negotiating Brexit. This outcome is by no means guaranteed.

Although a vote has now been promised to Parliament on the emerging settlement of the negotiations, the government is only offering a choice between a deal that may prove unsatisfactory as a means of safeguarding our country's future, or withdrawal from the EU with no agreed relationship at all. A patriotic approach to the Brexit process would surely keep all options open in the national interest.

We believe Parliament should amend the Article 50 notification Bill to ensure that it can determine what should be done if negotiations break down. Parliament's vote on any emerging settlement must also permit, if the terms are not in the national interest, amendment or extension of the negotiations, and to allow the country the option of an alternative relationship with the EU, including the possibility of membership.

It is time for a practical approach to the Brexit process, which puts our country and its people first."

Ok whitewave - if I take it to mean the will of the people of England.

So Scotland and Northern Ireland should now be free to exercise their will perhaps.

Sorry, Cindersdad, you are having a rerun of the Brexit threads, rather than a response to your OP.

www.campaign2018.org

Interesting post sarahellenwhitney - but do you not think that the overpopulation argument is just a cover for the lack of investment in NHS and other key national infrastructures, and the massive cuts in public services we have now endured since 2010?

I would expect governments to extrapolate population data for at least a 5-year business plan, to determine what was needed to be spent on key assets as population and demographics changed in different parts of the country.

That is at least what a business would do as it grew.

I voted out. Why? I, like many, were not unhappy with our lives before we entered the common market then to be the EU. Gradually and things do not happen overnight flaws began appearing.Were we still Brits ? No. We were Europeans. I do not like being told my status.If I marry I can choose whether I take my husbands name or not.If I need a passport to enter other European countries so be it.At least other countries in Europe would know who I was like we in UK would know who was coming in.Thankfully we were not forced into the euro.We are vastly becoming overpopulated our NHS is becoming our Titanic.I do not want the country of my birth which we fought for in 39-45 to be a number. Like other countries in the eu that is precisely what we are Just a number. My list is endless.

No the will of the people is what we want it to mean.

Don't you just love "the will of the people" phrase.

Should I take it that this particular phrase means the "will of the people in England alone" ??

Anan is spot on!

Cameron was pressurised by the Tory hard right and UKIP to promise a refereundum in the 2015 election manifesto. A complicated subject like EU membership should never have been used for a refereundum.

Added to which, most referendums require a margin of - say - 10% for a majority, not a simple majority where just one vote will do.

Unfortunately the EU has become a huge bureaucracy with rules that don't suit every country. Cameron should have negotiated harder instead of coming back with pathetic concessions that convinced no-one.

We have been badly let down by our politicians because they would not address people's genuine and reasonable fears about immigration. The Government's austerity programme has made poorer people poorer and big businesses have grown richer by allowing them to pay immigrants less than the minimum wage which is never enforced.

Worst of all, the Government isn't being held to account when there is a dysfunctional opposition led by a well-meaning puppet operated by left wing nutters.

Welcome to life in a one-party state!

I voted to leave.
I am continuously being told by my self appointed 'betters' - "you poor little soul, you need help, you didn't know what you were voting for.
How insulting.
How 'superior'.
How snobbish.
I took a step back and looked at 'Europe' in the cold light of day and made my decision.
We leavers are not idiots and it makes me angry to be patronised.

It was you, the remainers, who didn't know what you were voting for.

Injecting them with what,NFK?

It’s an extremely complicated argument but I’d like to make the following points. Firstly that the Referendum hasn’t created divisions within British society so much as exposed those that were already lurking below the surface. For example the way that, without any real evidence, Leave voters were branded thick, uneducated, knuckle-dragging bigots etc., who didn’t know what we were voting for. Now we know what “they”, the Camerons, Osbornes Bransons and Geldofs, the Emma Thompsons really think of us. Having said that, many of the clues were already there in the excuses given for employing cheap labour from Eastern Europe – the British were perfectly happy on benefits (some of us were very far from being so), too lazy and unmotivated to do those jobs, never mind that we were never given the choice in the first place, many such vacancies being advertised abroad. No, it was, and is, all about MONEY, concentrating it into the hands of fewer and fewer people. The fat cats haven’t had to put up with the conditions the rest of us have, overcrowding of the infrastructure, the increasing difficulty of accessing NHS services etc. Hopefully Teresa May appreciates the impossibility of keeping the lid on this simmering cauldron for much longer.

Seriously........we all know only death is final. The daily situation in each of our lives can change dramatically and that's without the help of the Brexits of this world which will also change on a daily basis. These ongoings simply serve to employ politicians and journalists and, unfortunately, to seriously worry many of us. I am certainly very interested in the current world situation. Fascinating and intriguing. I love that so many of us are thinking about our national situation. Helps in deciding how to vote on next occasion. When I'm on the 'losing' side of an election result I just 'dust myself off' even although all the 'winning' voters got it wrong!! Onwards..........

Yes it is final and the sooner we rid ourselves of the EU bureaucratic yoke the better off we'll all be. We keep hearing that the referendum process was deeply flawed but I have yet to hear or read how exactly. The EU is a sinkhole of hard earned taxpayers money to the tune of around £86 billion annually and the UK government is borrowing to pay which is a crazy situation to say the least. I love Europe but NOT what the EU has become.