Militarisation of our society

Pacifists can't be held responsible for others using weapons and wanting to fight wars.
Everyone has a choice, as you say.

So,......there is no evidence in fact, for thinking that the UK is becoming Militarised, at all.

There are things that can be done without resorting to war if the will is there. Did anyone see the last Poliakoff drama when Alfred Molina played he part of a foreign office official who had rejected the Germany army's offer to oust Hitler before the war? I did wonder if this had some truth in it and if the whole concept that there was no other alternative to WW2 was untrue.
I think we are led into wars because it suits the leaders not because it is essential

Pacifists make the choice as much as others and therefore cannot not slide out of the accusation of being complicit in the death of those who die by their decision.

Another quote Theodore Roosevelt "Speak softly and carry a big stick"

We would all like to see a world without weapons, no more wars or "conflicts" but that is not going to happen. If we are quoting people how about Edmund Burke "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing".

If we abandoned our weapons do you think ISIS (or whatever they are calling themselves these days) would stop killing those who disagreed with them, would stop their suicide attacks? I was once told by a Iranian friend that in his culture any show of kindness or restraint is seen as a sign of weakness to be taken advantage of.

Rudyard Kipling 'felt bereft and remorseful'..... apologies for the bad grammar

I think Kipling actually pulled a few well-connected strings to get his son into a regiment when he was turned down because of his poor eyesight . No wonder he felt so bereft and remorseful when he was killed (battle of Loos?). He was only just 18.

Wasn't he turned down a few times, because of poor eyesight?

Yes- John, sometimes called Jack. He volunteered, urged on by Kipling, and died aged 19.

Talking about his only son there, as well, wasn't he, trisher?

Kipling isn't an advisable poet to quote in support of war. He also wrote
If any question why we died
Tell them, because our fathers lied

Some pacifists do believe that defence is justified.
I would also object to the pacifists can kill..Perhaps more that they allow the killing of others to continue?

This is all getting very silly. I doubt there would not be a single person on here who would condone increased use of guns in our society, whether they have a military background or not, and as for increased militarisation, I just don't see where you run away with the idea that a few old men wearing medals and headgear on a few ceremonial occasions constitutes the end of peaceful civilisation as we know it. Respectful recognition for the war dead happens in every peaceful society; on our Rememberance Sunday, organisations as diverse as the Scouts and the Salvation Army turn out in their uniforms. Does that mean the sky is falling? Lock up the Chelsea Pensioners? They live in their uniforms - totally unacceptable! And as for the Cadet Forces, only 25% of their numbers go on to join the Services and only a small minority of those will take on combat roles. But those who don't join the services come away with standards and life lessons that will serve them well. They are not "press ganged" into taking the Queen's shilling! And while there are poems to be bandied about, I am not a fan of Kipling, but
"It's Tommy this, and Tommy that, and "Chuck 'im out, the brute",
But he's the saviour of he people when the guns begin to shoot!"
Get real, for God's sake!

Most people do not blindly think that guns will solve anything, and that includes most of those in the military. Unfortunately that still leaves a lot of mad b***ers around who do, Assad, Kim whats his name in North Korea, to name but two.

Supposing South Korea were to disband its military and turn its guns into plough shares do you honestly believe that the result would be North Korea, immediately offering the hand of peace and friendship and doing the same? Or do you think that Kim whats his name would be more likely to make the most of the opportunity to take over South Korea and reduce it to the poverty North Korea 'enjoys', not to mention disposing of a lot of its citizens in unpleasant ways.

The same applies to Assad. Obama avoided sending planes into Syria after threatening to do so if Assad used chemical weapons, which he did? Was the result peace and resolution of this desperate conflict? Of course not. What it lead to was further use of chemical weapons. Trumps sudden move, providing he sanctions no more raids unless chemical weapons are used may well save lives

Remember, the choice between fighting and not fighting, is not the choice between killing and not killing. It is merely the choice of which group you think should be killed. Pacifists can kill as many people as guns do.

*Willsmadnan" I do agree with you about the moronic postings after Martin McGuinness died ...its seems we only see ONE side of the conflict in Ireland and forget that there was a great deal of violence from the UDF and others on the opposite side of the "religious" divide INCLUDING THE BRITISH ARMY I have found a lot of young men who are in the forces( and I have family who are) are very arrogant and jingoistic.I wouldn't have let my son join up even though the army recruits in our area regularly .Thats a practice I despise,recruiting from areas of low employment where young people have few choices

So funny, you people who like to slag off 'left wingers', it doesn't take you long to show your true colours does it! No wonder you believe in guns.

No more silly than blindly thinking that guns will solve anything. I happened to be listening to the radio the other day, someone quoted Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane: those who live by the sword, die by the sword. I'm not religious, wouldn't have been able to quote that myself, but I just found myself thinking that people down the millennia have not learned that a single thing.

My message was to willsmadnan

Who Merlotgran?

Moronic? Brainwashed?

I doubt they miss you on facebook

That's just a silly comment.

If everybody thought that marching about with guns was a bad thing then the world would be a safer place. But hey, let's agree with the American gun lobby shall we, vote for guns in schools now, arm those toddlers!! Sorry, is there a problem?

Spot on Roses

The inhabitants of Royal Wootton Bassett and Carterton knew the young men stationed there from having them around the town and socialising with them. They were showing respect for them as local people as they were driven through the towns on their way "home" - and I don't think there would have been any other route to their quarters. It is customary for a funeral procession to receive respect on its journey. I would have been more surprised if the vehicles had rushed through deserted streets.