Problems which are not problems

tricia, yes, that is what I meant, so far as I understand such things, which is not very far.

maw, I don't just mean a friend's situation "depresses" in the scornful way your post seems to suggest. I don't mean anything so ordinary as that. Also, in the case I mentioned, I didn't walk away. It was more complicated. However if you wish to persist in thinking the worst of me (and, incidentally, all those others I mentioned who felt the same), do carry on. I don't think you've quite understood my keel remark either. Never mind. I know I am not the fair weather friend your comments seem to imply.

n&g, I think sympathy is sometimes seen/felt as pity even when it isn't that from the point of view of the person expressing it. Perhaps, as with so many things, the line between sympathy and pity is very fine and different people see it, so to speak, in different places depending on where they're at at the time, iyswim!

I agree with you Tricia and N&G.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”
Like you, Nana, I think sympathy is more like pity, feeling "for" someone.
Whereas empathy is feeling "with" someone. But that's just me.
Baggs - I agree with a point you made earlier that being able to feel for others is a genetic trait (at least I think that's what you said or implied.)

Yes I think you're right Baggs about sympathy being expressed but empathy being felt.

I wonder if sympathy just felt is pity? I'm not sure but definitely food for thought.

agree with "more"
but must add being gobsmacked into uncontrollable fits of laughter have been very good for me.
www.gransnet.com/forums/health/1237405-Vibrators
had me laughing so hard staffy pup stared and barked at me.like i was a loon

Yes

Correction; this puts DLS in distinguished company.

I like "frivol", Christinefrance, but I think I have come across it in Dorothy L. Sayers' Peter Wimsey novels. This puts you in distinguished company!

Perhaps one's friends' misfortunes wouldn't make one 'sad' if one's own life was on an even keel, maw. Have you considered that? You know, being full of sympathy and being strong for someone else, when your own keel is damaged
Some of the kindest and most helpful people I have met have been those with "their own cross to bear". Some of the most empathic and effective Samaritans have been those whose lives were far from easy.
I find it strange Baggs that you ask if I have considered "that"? I would be a selfish person indeed if I let my own issues render me incapable or unwilling to be a source of support for others. And yes, I have "considered" the get-out you quote.
There are many of us whose lives are far from being on an immovably even keel, but however dark the night, there must always be compassion for others.
I prefer the word "compassion" to "sympathy" even if they mean the same sort of thing - I can feel for others, whether in a similar situation to my own or with wildly different problems. I may think "there but for the grace of god" but would never allow my own grief or pain to diminish my capacity to feel for others. Compassion does not come in finite quantities after all.
Walk away because a friend's situation depresses me?
What sort of friend would do that?

Some posts are trivial and others are serious, but all fill a need to the poster, I think.

My health problems have interfered with everyday life for thirty-five years, ann. But that wasn't what I was referring to. My point is simply that just because you don't know someone's problems, because they don't talk about them on a public forum, doesn't mean they don't have them.

I have in the past expressed sympathy for your situation and I'm glad I'm not in it.

n&g, my over-rated comment was a bit bald, I know. I'm thinking of some published papers I read about saying the same thing but in a scholarly way. Anyway, one can be empathic and sympathetic without anyone knowing, if there has been no chance to express one's sympathy, for instance, or if, for some reason, one doesn't want to. Perhaps it has been rejected in the past or something like that.

Does anyone else feel that sympathy is something to be expressed, provisos above aside, and empathy is something one just feels as in sensing another's discomfort because of some behaviour of theirs?

I have to disagree Baggs I don't think empathy is over-rated. In fact I'd like to see a bit more of it. Its empathy for someone's situation that helps me be a bit more patient maybe than I would looking purely at the facts.

But of course we are all different ( thank goodness )

I do agree about the phrase being able to deal with others problems better when you're on an even keel yourself though.

I also think some of us are 'doers' I like to offer physical help and am at a loss sometimes when that's not possible. Even in terms of bereavement I am uncomfortable just saying sorry for your loss, my heart wants to offer practical help.

I loved the poem Maw !

I hope today is a day with a bright spot at least in it for you Ann even with the added house worries !!

And if I may add "Ouch!" ?

I certainly should Baggs.

Well of course if people don't share problems/ worries/ concerns , and are not seen to be very sympathetic to others , it is assumed they don't have any. I know that you have health problems Baggs as you have said so in posts.
I hope they are not getting worse and interfering with everyday life.

I enjoy all the posts (I manage to read) on here whether they're frivolous or serious and would be very sorry to see anyone leave GN who feels they're not a valued member. I know a lot of people have real problems going on in their lives now and feel dreadfully sorry that I don't have the adequate words to convey how sad I feel for them. We have been through some dreadful times in our own lives and I wish I'd had a place like GN back then to go to for advise or support or just simply to read something to take my mind off whatever the issue that day was. to all those with troubles today and every day.

Perhaps one's friends' misfortunes wouldn't make one 'sad' if one's own life was on an even keel, maw. Have you considered that? You know, being full of sympathy and being strong for someone else, when your own keel is damaged?

Would you like a list of my problems, ann? You and others might get where I'm coming from then.

Not that I'm going to tell you.

stuck for words annsixty
sorry, that's no help

Surely the insurers won't be able to wriggle out of paying - but they may try to.
They'll tell you anything to fob you off.

Yes, BEing there is great. But what if even that gets too much? What if one's own distress level rises to an unmanageable point because of being there for someone else?

I'm not getting the impression that people, so far, really understand what I'm saying.

I am sure that will be classed as uncalled for.
I am sitting waiting for a visit from an engineer / surveyor to tell me if my house falling down? Am I insured if it is.
Initial talks with the insurers tell me , probably not.
Well at least the house won't have any value to go towards my H's care home fees.

guilty

I'm not droning on either. Just explaining something that can happen. it happened to me and I felt really huilty about it until I heard from a string of other people to whom the same thing had happened because of the same person. Many of these others I had always thought much better listeners and sympathisers than I. Seems they weren't.

It happens.

And that 'droning' post wasn't about you, ann. It was a general remark. I'm discussing a general issue. I'm not discussing your problems at all. <thinks: maybe that's the problem> ?

it's not that they don't want to help but they can't
There's a fallacy here which may have a lot to do with some so-called friends drifting away, and that is the idea of helping
GN is full of it, we are asked for advice and we give it, sometimes based on experience, often not, and may offer advice or solution even if none is sought. We are kind people by nature and genuinely want to help. How often after a bereavement do we ask "If there is anything I can do...don't hesitate" or similar words. Money collections such as after tragic occurrences like the Manchester bomb are another example.
It is a human instinct to want to "fix things" , make them better in whatever way we feel we can.
But too often there is no "fix We can't change the situation so, feeling helpless we shake our heads and walk away.
Just BE there, BE a listening ear (even if it is for the eleventy billionth time) BE sympathetic, BE patient.
And if a friend's misfortunes make you sad, be grateful that your life is as yet on an even keel!