Rehousing issue for Grenfell Towers survivors

Racism can be mentioned and is rife on GN Annie, racist language is unacceptable. Interesting that you can't see the difference.

Says who annie?

No maryeliza, racism is not permitted to be mentioned

Being 'colour blind' in this case is a nonsense. Racism is bound to be thought to be a relevant issue, given that the majority were non- white. I personally think there are other sociological-economic factors in play as well

Council's are run by ordinary people who are elected Baggs not financial experts so there is no reason why their accounts shouldn't be understood by anyone with basic maths. Law and justice are delivered every day by juries who are composed of ordinary people, why should this inquiry be different? And are you suggesting, and I do hope you aren't, that only white people have knowledge of the law, justice and finance?

How can law and justice be addressed without exploring why people's concerns were ignored over the years? its about marginalised groups and the disdain with which wealthy Tory councillors in K&C held them - more of the group were non white so the issues inevitably get inter meshed with that.

Racism has fuck all to do with the Grenfell fire. Why has it been brought up? Fire safety and the treatment of tenants by their councils and landlords are not race issues. They could well be issues of relative poverty but that affects every kind of person.

As do true justice and fair laws.

Where did I say that annie?

The experience needed for the inquirers is going to be mainly about law and justice and how councils spend their money.

Baggs etc The problem is that justice must not just be done it must be seen to be done. So unless there is someone on the panel who the majority of tenants feel is trustworthy and has their best interests at heart, who has access to all the evidence,is present at all the discussions and can ask the questions they want asking they will never have closure on this. It is easy to dismiss their concerns as a member of the white majority, but we should remember that there are racist people in society, and that there has been institutionalised racism in the recent past. A panel that is as diverse as possible will lead to an inquiry whose findings are more widely accepted and will give peace of mind to more of the victims and their families which is surely the very least they are entitled to

This is about feelings being universal. All the survivors of the Grenfell Tower disaster will be feeling anger, loss, horror, frustration, etc, etc, etc in relation to what happened and in varying degrees depending on how well they are coping, how satisfied or not that they are with their rehousing.

Other feelings, dependant on their life stories up to the disaster, are irrelevant to the inquiry. NB That's not saying those feelings are irrelevant full stop, just that the feelings associated with the disaster will be universal (which doesn't mean exactly the same in every individual).

maryeliza, you think the panel should only be people who have experienced being in a fire in a block of flats ?

I really don't know, maryeliza. I don't think anyone knows, thus the inquiry. I suspect the answer is very complex and has a lot to do with money and a head in the sand attitude to safety.

Baggs serious question - why do you think they were ignored? We know they were.

It's not about the feelings being universal, it's about the whole context in which the feelings arise and are experienced and why. I'm not widowed, I haven't and can't experience the grief, fear and anger that arise from that experience. I've felt all those feelings but in different contexts. I've not been a long term career so haven't experienced the emotions that arise from that

I think now that what is being played is the victim card. In part that is totally justified considering that fire safety concerns were raised by residents over quite a period of time.

But the part that is about victimhood because of my race and ethnicity is pure tosh and should be ignored.

I will change my view on this when someone explains, really explains, why race and ethnicity has anything to do with fire safety in council owned buildings.

Without rock solid proof I will not believe that Kensington Council ignored the Grenfell residents' concerns because of their race and/or ethnicity.

Anniebach to paraphrase Mandy Rice Davies "Well you wouldn't would you"

Please will people stop using this term "playing the race card" It is racist and I will report it (I already have once).
To play the race card
(idiomatic, often pejorative) To assert that race or racism is involved in a situation, especially in order to exploit racist or antiracist attitudes

I just don't understand this demand for a non white person to be included in the panel. Is grief, fear, anger , not universal?

Diversity (race, ethnicity, gender, etc) is an in thing at the moment. That doesn't mean it always needs to be considered.

So perhaps people are just "playing the race card" for some other unfathomable* reason.

* unfathomable to me.

I think we all agree that where ethnic or racial representation is needed, then it's reasonable to expect it. What I have yet to understand in the Grenfell Tower inquiry is why ethnicity and racial representstoion is needed? As annie said, many of the residents were white British. Their needs were and are the same as people of all the other races and ethnicities affected by the disaster.

Actually, that's a mistake on my part. I can see that race and ethnicity might be different things. Which set me thinking about my race and ethnicity. I'm not sure I know what my race is. White cannot be a race any more than black, can it?

Perhaps my race is Caucasian and my ethnicity is Western European.

Some non-whites are Caucasian too, are they not?

It's not about what country the residents come from - it's about being part of a non-white minority in a predominantly white country.

As maryeliza said, just because someone is part of a minority group (she mentioned disabled people) that doesn't mean they should not have at least some representation in the larger group. In fact, it is generally seen as fair that, if at all possible, there should be proportionate representation.

That may not be possible in this case but I find it hard to believe that not one single non-white person is thought to be competent enough or capable of having a role in the inquiry panel. I also find it surprising that those who are responsible for/involved in the commissioning of panel members did not consider it might be of some concern to the residents of Grenfell.

One resident who claimed to have warned the cladding was unsafe was white British