Gay Pride ad a new 'equality gap'?

Eglantine I cannot trace any case involving Allan Horsefall, who was a much respected gay activist prior to the passing of the 1967 Act. The only case I can find involves the Bolton 7 and took place in 1998 over 30 years after the passing of the 1967 Act that decriminalise homosexuality and involved acts of 'gross indecency' nor covered by the 1967 Act.

dj How do you know that NanKate does not have the information she requires?

But the original subject of this discussion was the suppressing of information about a gay man Chewbacca and if this was done M0nica wouldn't have the information would she?
Annie people were treated appallingly with aversion therapy. One man died because of it.
"Gerald William Clegg-Hill - Billy to his friends - did not volunteer. When Clegg-Hill, an army captain, was arrested in 1962 on suspicion of homosexual practices, he was tried at Somerset assizes, in Wells, found guilty, and sent to a military psychiatric hospital at Netley, near Southampton, for treatment. His half-sister, Alison Garthwaite, recalls the scandal, the newspaper reports of how her brother's promising army career had been trashed. "I was completely shocked when it happened," she says. "I could not equate my beloved brother with the seedy dirty jokes that were told about queers in those days. I pushed it out of my mind and only thought about it some six or seven years later when attitudes to homosexuality became more liberal.

"But ours was not a liberal family. My father was a brigadier in the Royal Artillery and did not discuss the issue with me at all. Mother was just glad that Billy was getting treatment because being gay was seen as such a shameful thing."

Tragically, Billy did not survive the treatment. The full details of his death did not emerge until much later. There was no inquest and the family did not discuss what happened. "Back then, it was seen as shocking and disgusting to be gay, and I told nobody the truth," says Alison. For many years, their mother explained Billy's death to Alison as being the result of an allergic reaction to treatment for a nervous breakdown. The truth was that he died in hospital during apomorphine aversion therapy."

And you wonder why it is essential that the stories are told!

My posts are no more ridiculous than yours durham. This for instance: "It's just obvious that you have to be told by someone in order to make your mind up." That's utter nonsense! Why does anyone, including NanKate have to be "told"? She, like any of us, has formed her opinions by observations and experiences; certainly not from someone on Gransnet who has delusions of being the most well informed, on every subject!
And what I watch on tv is my business, not yours.

If Nankate has the information, that's okay. She must have been given it somehow, either spoken or written, or whatever.

The story I put on won't be believed, either, trisher.
Annie says gays wern't put in institutions, so she must be right.
The people who know about it, and who it happened to, must have made it up.

You are getting more and more petty, Chewbacca.

Kettle. Pot. Black.

Okay, so you are not watching about how gays are treated in sport now, about how the gay captain of the Welsh Rugby team felt like throwing himself off a cliff because his life became so intolerable.

No, but Wallace and Gromit's A Grand Day Out was good. Have you seen it? Really good.

At least one of the "Boston 7 " was under age and I understand it was the "group nature" of the homosexual acts which still fell foul of the law. So not "sex between 2 consenting adults".

Blame the iPad
BOLTON 7

No, not the Bolton 7. The incident I mentioned took place in 1958 and was called the Horsfall case because he wrote to the papers and generally brought it to public attention. I don't know how to post a link. Sorry.

You seem obsessed with outing people as if only their sexuality matters. The person matters irrespective of whether they are gay or not. You cannot decide what or what not this generous man wanted, the NT have not done themselves any favours in their treatment of this benefactor. I don't know who decided on the badges, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he or she was gay and using their position to further their cause, it has in fact done the opposite. There is no shame now in being gay, black or whatever, the past is history, concentrate on now or we will very falling out with the Danes. The post Smileless made sums it up elequently.

The whole problem with any form of discrimination is that the person doesn't matter at all - just the fact of their sexuality, colour etc. I don't think 'shame' is the right word at all - thats why the word 'pride' is used but there are still plenty of examples of the various types of discrimination currently - discrimination of all types is not in the past although enormous strides have been made over our lifetimes. I wish discrimination were simply history. As for the idea that the past is history, I couldn't disagree more- the past shapes our present and our future ceaselessy and how we view and reinterpret the past is constantly changing.

To set the record straight

I was brought up to believe homosexuality was wrong.
In later years I realised that homosexuality is not a choice and I fully accept that, no problem.
Whatever sexuality anyone has is fine by me.
However anyone who has differing views should be allowed to have them.

What is important is that we are all treated equally.

Nuff said !

The majority of children now are very aware (from tv etc) that some people are gay - they just accept it and see it as perfectly natural. If you take them to a stately home where it is pointed out that a former owner was gay they will probably think "So what?". On the other hand they may start to wonder why such a big deal is being made of it - and start to wonder if there is actually something wrong with being gay.

I said homosexuals not locked in mental institutions IN THE SIXTIES.

If I were with my dgc visiting an NT property and the issue of being gay, the slave trade, exploitation of children came up I'd discuss the issue in an age appropriate way pointing out what people used to think and how it's ( mostly) changed. Children need to develop a sense of our history and of the brave and caring people who have made their world a better place - it didn't happen by magic!

I know Anniebach but you know how it is...........

Yep Chewbacca, I know how it is ?

Read the article Annie 1962 THAT IS THE SIXTIES YOU KNOW

And there are still gay people who are convinced to undergo aversion therapy because they are convinced by other people that they are somehow perverted and need 'treatment
I wonder next year it will be 100 years since women got the vote if the NT asks people to wear a lanyard in purple,green and white, the suffragette colours how many of you would refuse to wear it?

Jendurham I heard that programme with Pete Price in the middle of the night on the BBC World Service about a week ago.

I was so heartbroken and angry when he described what he'd gone through.

He'd realised that he was gay at age 12 and tried to commit suicide at 14 because he was so conflicted and ashamed. He was very close to his mother and she was understandably upset when she found evidence that he was gay.

His doctor sent him for aversion therapy - those of a delicate disposition look away now

A male psychiatrist oversaw the treatment which consisted of being locked in a cell with a male nurse who sat in the corner, and over a period of days was forced to look at gay porn whilst sitting in his own urine, faeces and vomit - get the aim here? He was threatened with electrodes to his genitals but I'm not sure this part went ahead. The poor desperate boy was 18 years old.

A few months later he was in a gay club in Manchester and saw the psychiatrist at the bar being 'outrageously camp'. Price attacked him with a bottle intending to kill him but people intervened.

If anyone wants to hear the interview I'm sure it's still available on IPlayer.

I think the point is trisher that if any one didn't want to wear a lanyard in support of the suffragette movement, or any other cause you may wish to mention, that they should be entitled to refuse without being criticised or judged for doing so.

Not wishing to wear a lanyard to show you support a particular cause or movement does not mean that you are against it.

I would add to Nan Kate's statement, I was also brought up to believe that homosexuality was wrong, as indeed were a multitude of other things, all part and parcel of being a Catholic. However, some of us throw off the shackles of a religion that we have been born into and didn't make an informed choice to follow as we develop into adults,or at least question it. The three Abrahamic religions are patriarchal and seek to control their followers through their edicts often imbuing a fear and creating stigmas that they attach to certain practices. Like NanKate I also reached the conclusion that homosexuality is not a choice and to demonise it in the way religions do is wrong, conversely it appeared, from artefacts that some of the pagan religions/sects actually celebrated it so possibly they were more foward thinking in that respect, or just didn't have the hang ups that religions have with sex. Homosexuals are not a homogonised mass and many live in stable relationships. There are certain lifestyles within the homosexual community that some will find distasteful, such as "cottaging" brief sexual liaisons in toilets etc and I believe the San Francisco bath houses also notorious for such practices a while back. Possibly that comes into play when some people don't openly wish to ensorse the gay movement per se. To counter balance that, I would add I can think of plenty of similar louche behaviour among the hetrosexual community which does them no favours, not least of all those who go to southern Europe, get drunk and have sex in public places, piss off the local population and generally give our country a bad name. We don't know why those at the NT did not want to wear the rainbow lanyards but possibly it could because of deeply held religious convictions or a distate for certain ascpects of the gay lifestyle, or simply because they wanted the choice. There will be those within the Muslim religion who will hold the same conservative views, but I can't help thinking because they are also a minority they won't necessarily be vilified in the same what a bunch of "old farts" way.

Good, Riverwalk. I am pleased someone else knows who I am talking about.
Take note, it happened in the 60s, those of you who do not believe that gays were sent to institutions in the 60s.