Gay Pride ad a new 'equality gap'?

So gay pride marches are compared with Apartheid marches, Suffragettes movement, Jarrow Marches.

We have the racial discrimination act but still racism

America is still a racist

Homosexuality is legal , marching and demanding people wear badges will not change how some think or believe

The aggression and insults in this thread are vile, and the most aggressive have been far left supporters.

Telling people how they must think, what they must support certaintly shows freedom of speech is not valued

"Teling people how they must think and what they must support certainly shows freedom of speech is not valued" Annie you have encapsulated the problem in one sentence. Eroding individual freedoms can be very insidious and those that seek to do so whatever their political persuasion are giving the thumbs up to a totalitarian ideal. There are adherents to certain faiths and political regimes that have murdered gay people are they also "farts"?

I dont think anyones telling people what they must think ...just that ALL of us should be treated the same ...and discrimination is discrimination WHATEVER its against .Its just as bad to be anti gay as anti black...neither are things that happen by CHOICE .Respect surely should be the byword in all religions though I do know a lot of so called christians who interpret the bible to suit themselves and their own bias.One friend of ours is an evangelical christian "born again" who was happy to work with gay folk and socialise with them until he "found" Jesus ,now his outlook has narrowed in a ridiculous way ...and its not "christian" as I would understand it .Surely we should just accept people for who/what they are ..what they do behind closed doors doesn't affect us so why are we worried/upset by it

Luckylegs9 You said it was extremely vulgar, people barely dressed and if they were were in the most bizarre and sexually explicit clothes, they looked and behaved offensively.
Sounds exactly like a Saturday night in the bars in Newcastle where most of the people aren't gay.

Terri, I read an interview with a N.T, volenteer at that house, he and his wife have withdrawn their services, not homophobic , suppose as he is 81 years old he is one of a certain posters ' old farts ' and his opinion must be ignored.

What next ? A march to bring in 'homophobic ' stamped on people's foreheads .

In Nazi Germany Jews were required to wear yellow stars, homosexuals to wear pink triangles. It seems strange to me that anyone would support the right of one of these groups to have complete equality and be strident in their condemnation of people they regard as speaking against them, but consider the other group to be unimportant and unworthy of the same support.

So being forced to wear The Star of David was wrong , being forced to wear the rainbow badge is right .

No one was being "forced" they were told that they would be given roles which meant they wouldn't meet the public. They were free to choose if they wore it or not. Just as the NT is free to choose what roles volunteers play in the property they run.

No, they were told if you don't wear the badges you cannot mix with the public ,you support this Trisher , I do not.

I support freedom to choose Annie The right of the person to choose not to wear the badge and the right of the NT to decide who meets the public in their properties.
Suppose someone turned up inappropriately dressed would the NT then be required to allow them to meet the public simply because they were a volunteer?

I think you've just argued against your own argument there Trisher. Surely the whole point is that forcing anyone to wear any kind of identification that marks them as "other" is never acceptable; whether that's a yellow star, a pink triangle or a rainbow lariats. If one chooses to wear anything that marks their "otherness"; or support of that "otherness", that has to be a matter of personal choice, surely?

Boy a LOT has happened on this thread since yesterday!!! I have just spent the last thirty minutes reading it! Interesting...
Anniebach, I am sorry but i do think your last comment is twisting the comment and yes, it is different. The star of david was to humiliate and make easy targets the jews in Germany. It made it easy for the soldiers to turn them into immediate victims. It also made it easy for the children to be bullied and ostracised at school, that was only the beginning of it. Hardly comparable.
I think Trisher made a good point earlier when she pointed out that if the badge was " save our forests", or something like that, nobody would have questioned it, and all happily worn it.
I think the real issue here is, that many people think that this business is about SEX - it isnt. It is about being citizens on the same level as heterosexuals.
Let me elaborate; how many times have any one of us seen a couple behaving in public in an endearing way, holding hands, being corteous of each other, helping each other, and we have smiled, thought, how sweet.
Homosexuals rarely hold hands in public, if they do, it is usually after a lot of thinking about whether the environment is "ok". When any one of us take our partner's arm or hold hands - do we have to think about how others will view it?
When we go for a job, is there a chance we wont get it because of our sexual orientation? And yes, it does happen.
It's not just about the right to have a same sex partner - not by a long shot. It is about feeling accepted by society.

Read the posts Chewbacca they were allowed to choose. No one was 'forced' whatever Annie might say. They were given other roles, but apparently the NT have to allow volunteers to wear anything they want and do what they like.

Very well put, lisalou.
Exactly how I feel.

So suppose it wasn't a Rainbow badge but something else, perhaps a "Keep Britain Tidy" badge or a "Help for Heroes" badge or a Campaign to protect Rural England badge would you still refuse to wear it? Because if you would accept any of these but not the Rainbow you are homophobic, no matter what you believe.

I wouldn't expect to see a NT guide wearing any of those badges as that is not in their remit, not their charity. The only badge I would expect to see them wearing at work would be a NT badge so that I know they are the person to ask if I want any information about the property. If they want to promote any other campaign or charity they can do it outside working hours.

Thanks Lisalou I worked for many years with someone who didn't come out till he was in his 40s. What his early life was like I can't imagine. Your statements about what gay people want are so true. I am amazed that people haven't watched and listened to the stories being told on the Beeb about the persecution that took place within living memory. And if they have listened I can't understand how they can't appreciate that there are still levels of discrimination and real hatred in our society.

Issuing a proclamation that everyone who meets the NT public MUST wear a badge to demonstrate that they don't discriminate against anyone for their sexual preferences is insulting to their volunteers. It is like insisting that cafe assistants wear one saying "I do not spit in the coffees I serve".

OF COURSE a proper waitress doesn't spit in the coffee, and her training should have ensured that if she had started off with any such ideas she would know better than to indulge in them. A proper NT volunteer has presumably undergone training, during which the NT policies have been explained, and if they hadn't agreed with them, they would not be there. If they displayed any negativity while on duty, that should be tackled at once.

You don't improve the treatment of one lot of people by treating another lot like naughty children who must wear "I have promised to be good today" labels or be banished from sight.

maryeliza54, I stand by what I said. The mere fact that you think that we can make value judgements about who it is acceptable or unacceptable to coerce emphasises my point.

Do you condemn those who coerce those who are gay, while treating with less opprobrium those who coerce people who, for example, belong to a particular religion, because that is a personal opinion. The Yazidhis in Iraq, Christians in Pakistan, or Muslims in Britain. Once you make value judgements like that anything is permissible. Just turn it into an 'opinion' and it is OK.

Penstemon reactionary old farts have as much right to be heard and to have their views treated with respect as anyone else. To some you too may appear to be yet another reactionary old fart.

Luckylegs9 In my youth, when all comments were about heterosexuals, there was a phrase quite common at the time, that we didn't mind what people did in private as long as 'they did not do in the streets and frighten the horses'. If we are to treat all with absolute equality this phrase can quite reasonably be applied to all types of gender display.

Lisalou, if you think marching and telling people to wear badges supporting guys will change people's views on homosexuality then I think you are so mistaken.

Trisher compared gay marches with anti apartheid marches, has Dr King changed the views of racists ?

Dismissing people as old farts is a sure way to express one's tolerance .

There has always been racists, homophobics, wife beaters even thought there has been changes in the laws, always will be . Wrong? yes, but we cannot force people to think as we believe they should think.

Not sure what you mean when you say "apparently the NT have to allow volunteers to wear anything they want and do what they like? I would have thought that the only thing that a volunteer of the NT has to do is to be easily identifiable as a guide (or whatever their role is) and to do the job that they've volunteered to do. Personally, when I visit a NT property, I'm not interested in the political or sexual persuasion of the lady who checks my membership card or that man in the car park.

w e cant force them to think Annie but we can make it aginst the law to discriminate and although there are laws it still happens and often its ignored.Everyone shoulld have the right to equal treatment ...I hear young boys using "gay" as an insult and I have spoken to their headmaster about it....lets hope what he had tosay stops them in their tracks

paddyann surely that is Anniebach's point. It is possible to legislate against discrimination and, indeed, to enforce it, but you cannot change what people's private views or, sometimes, behaviour are.

More importantly people who think against the norm are entitled to their views and to express them, even if you or I do not agree with them. What they cannot do is use their views to incite others to hate or commit violence against a group or with views they do not agree with, nor can we use the same tactics to silence them.

Free speech breaks both ways.

Thankfully some of the NT support these ideas. And where have the boring oldfarts volunteers involved in this dispute been hiding? Did they not realise it was a celebration for the NT and LGHBT rights? www.nationaltrust.org.uk/features/exploring-lgbtq-history-at-national-trust-places
Scroll down for a photo- all young people of course- which tells you something!

Chewbacca, I doubt visitors to NT properties are interested in the volenteers views, just the properties ?

Nobody is condoning how gay people have been treated in the recent past and few of us are unaware of what has happened. However that is not a reason for saying that we all have to wear badges stating our commitment to gender equality. Wearing a badge does not necessarily prove anything, I expect quite few people who do not agree with gender equality just wore the badge because they were told to, and they were afraid to say no. And some supported the cause but refused to be labelled.

As I said very early on this thread, I would have refused to wear the badge/lanyard, not because I did not agree with the cause but because, as I have said above I distrust all kinds of value signalling To spare anyone having to page back to find what I said, I quote:
'I do not wear badges advertising my religious or political beliefs nor do I wear T shirts with slogans or advertising on. I couldn't care less what anyone's sexual preferences are and never have. '

Trisha you sound very hide bound and prejudiced. If you had looked you would have seen quite a number of interviews - and names and photos of the volunteers involved in the papers and online. You also assume that all those who refused to wear the badge did not agree with values it advertised. That is an assumption that cannot be made without proof.

I assume your later remarks are meant to suggest that all homophobes are elderly, you must live a very sheltered life. The amount of homophobic bullying that occurs among young people and in schools is quite horrific and often reported in all the media.

Looking at the picture, just tells me that the NT suffers from institutionalised ageism, despite its reliance on retired people as volunteers