Gay Pride ad a new 'equality gap'?

Trisher, sorry I mispelt your name.

trisher, thanks for the link to the NT film about Ketton-Cremer. A less interesting little film it would be hard to find, and it does nothing to enhance one's appreciation of the house.

G.K Chesterton-“There are no uninteresting things, only uninterested people.”
What a pity you chose one film from a whole catalogue of events, perhaps you should explore further.
M0nica don't worry about it, I sometimes do it myself!!

Thinking about the history of some of these stately homes and their now dead owners their decadent life styles comes to mind , not a pleasant thought.

I looked at this film because it was relevant to this discussion. It certainly hasn't encouraged me to spend any time looking at the others.

The phrase that struck me from the film was "as an honest biographer himself...."
Surely he would want people to be honest about him.

But Ketton-Cremer was a very private man, and according to his family, he wouldn't have wanted to have been "outed" for his sexuality. Did no one at the NT think to check with them first before embarking on their campaign? Surely he has a right to his privacy, alive or dead.

Jen said his family should be proud of him, no explanation for this pride except he was gay, rather a silly reason to be proud if we want equality for all.

Most gay people lived very private lives for the simple reason to be identified would mean imprisonment, treatment using hormones or at the least ostracism. After my friend came out at 40 he was able to talk openly about his feelings and the man he loved, before that he had to watch what he said very carefully. The family cannot know what Ketton-Cremer would have wanted anymore than we can, but telling his story illustrates the difficulties that he would have encountered. It is history and many of the stories told in history are possibly not the ones the person involved would have preferred.

Trisher, if that is the bar you set for living, turning out time in Newcastle, I rest my case. I have seen what goes on in Birmingham, London etc. People relieving themselves in the street and having sex, the back of that is usually drink or drugs. That doesn't make it right because it goes on. I do not, repeat do not think homosexuality should be criminal, I think bad behaviour and base crude acts in public should be against the law. If you don't so be it. There is nothing wrong in behaving decently and having morals, so don't accuse me of being homeophobic because I don't share your very liberal moral code. As for what goes on between consenting adults in private, that is how it should stay, it is not a parcipative sport just yet.

But this isn't what the NT is about is it? This is from the NT website:
"We’re a charity founded in 1895 by three people who saw the importance of our nation’s heritage and open spaces and wanted to preserve them for everyone to enjoy. More than 120 years later, these values are still at the heart of everything we do. We look after special places throughout England, Wales and Northern Ireland for ever, for everyone.

We look after coastline, forests, woods, fens, beaches, farmland, moorland, islands, archaeological remains, nature reserves, villages, historic houses, gardens, mills and pubs. We restore them, protect them and open them up to everyone. For the Trust, conservation has always gone hand-in-hand with public access. We welcome everyone to explore:
775 miles of coastlineOver 248,000 hectares of landOver 500 historic houses, castles, ancient monuments gardens and parks and nature reserves."

It doesn't say anything about political consciousness or getting involved in sociological issues. It's aim is simply to preserve buildings and estates for future generations. If one of their properties has a history that they think would be of great interest or value to the general public, it would make good sense to check with the family or friends of that property before proceeding further. On this occasion, the NT didn't and the friends and family of those who knew Ketton-Cremer the best are adamant that he would have hated having his private life made the subject of such a furore.

Annie, I also said surely he would want people to be honest about him.
You appear not to have noticed that.

Jen, doesn't explain why you think his family should be proud of him. They shouldn't be proud or ashamed of his sexuality surely.

His family accepted him for what he was Anniebach , a kind, generous, warm hearted and very private man. All of his family and friends knew of his sexuality but respected his privacy. The NT did not.

Annie, I didn't say his family should be proud of him. I said they should be proud.
That's what gay pride is all about, the way that being gay is no longer to be hidden.
Be proud, show it off, accept that he is gay, do not hide the fact, like he had to all those years ago.

Nobody at Felbrigg can say they did not know about the exhibition. Volunteers took part in the Stephen Fry film.
The Spring copy of the magazine had all about it. They must have known about it before the house was open.

Well said Chewbacca

From accounts I have read by those who knew him he does seem to have been a kind, warm-hearted man - and generous, especially giving his property to the NT for us all to enjoy today.
Unfortunately, what most people will now know about him is his sexuality and nothing else of this essentially private man.

Who else could he have told? Did you know him? It might be reasonable to suppose that he left his house to the NT knowing that his memory would be preserved and his story told and that part of that story was his sexuality. Maybe he didn't trust his family to be honest about him.

before anyone picks me up on the word 'unfortunately' and calls me an old fart I mean because there was a lot more that we could learn about him and his life besides the one aspect of his being that the NT powers-that-be think needs emphasising.

None of us know trisher therefore best to respect the fact that he did not write his memoirs to be published after his death or presumably did not leave instructions in his will for that part of his story to be told.

No Jen, show it off? Hell bells , do those of us with family who are gay start wearing tee shirts.

Don't hide the fact, I agree, I also support don't celebrate th fact and don the tee shirts, just accept

It might be reasonable to suppose
It might be unreasonable to suppose too

He had two years to come out if he wanted to

Maybe he didn't trust his family to be honest about him

My word! That's one hell of an assumption! How can you possibly presume or question what he did or did not trust his family with! Unless, of course, you knew him personally trisher, in which case, I bow to your knowledge. Failing that, we have to rely on those closest to him - his family and friends.

People are what they are and not everyone wants to wear their sexuality on their sleeve.
Many people prefer to live very private lives whatever their sexual orientation.

The stigma of homosexuality lasted long after it was made legal. The family who knew him were used to keeping his secret, he was used to keeping his secret, even two years would not be long enough to adjust. My friend was 40 when he came out, it had been legal for over 20 years, but it was still a big step. If Ketton-Cremer were still alive I would certainly question outing him, but as it is he is dead and the only thing that remains is the story of his life. To tell that story without mentioning his sexuality would be to tell a lie and to further the idea that homosexuality must be hidden and not spoken about because it is wrong. Thank goodness the NT are a more enlightened bunch than you lot.