.. to be appalled by this news about Jacob Rees-Mogg on GMB today

Excellent post as well from you GG. You and Eloethan between you have said it all. As you say, being honest is not by itself admirable, it's what you are bring honest about.

FaRRon not Fallon - sorry!

he amuses me. I love the use of Mogmentum

If all MP's were honest about their feelings and convictions
It would be interesting viewing/listening wouldn't it?
Not that it will ever happen.
OurKid1 I expect that's why he is so popular, he does his job well.That's all I require from an MP.

lemongrove, your dulcet tones seem familiar. Are you another name changer?

I don't think people realise that this is their life, if you want to use abortion as a birth control then that's up to them.

JRM might be OK as PM. People say one thing and then it all changes, sometimes on a daily basis, when they end up doing what they want.

The comment made about other major religions having a similarly prohibitive stance on abortion is incorrect, as the following link (with references) shows. In all of the mainstream religions there are various views about abortion, each citing various parts of their scriptures to support their opinions.

However, even if all religions opposed abortion, I would still take the view that it is the woman who is pregnant and who will bear the consequences of continuing with the pregnancy and who should make decisions of this nature. After all, the followers of most mainstream religions don't necessarily have a great record in respecting the sanctity of life (as can be seen from what is happening in Myanmar).

trisher

" Why is it necessary for right wingers to constantly decry us lefties as worshipping Corbyn, but regard their own position on JRM as somehow balanced? Smacks of fear, that actually they know how wrong they are and so have to use smear and abuse to make their point."

I think it is the case that some are trying to smear Rees-Mogg as they did Tim Farron to make their point.

As like many posters there are some of us who do not care Rees-Mogg is right wing and Farron was left wing they expressed their opinion fairly and believe they both have a right to hold a personal belief. Perhaps that's because their political allegiance , in regard to Rees-Mogg , Farron or themselves , is not the issue. Some posters are more concerned with principle of allowing others to be a Christian and having the honesty to say they hold a belief .

If a Labour MP was receiving the same abuse for being a Christian and having the same belief as Rees-Mogg and Farron I would defend his/her right also.

As Rees-Mogg said at the end of the interview:-

" It's all very well to say we live in multicultural country until you are a christian , until you hold the traditional views of the Catholic Church. That seems to me to be fundamentally wrong, people are entitled to hold these views but also the democratic majority is entitled to have the laws of the land as they are".

I admit I am one of those who attend church for weddings and funerals. Like many other people / posters I respect that is not the choice of others who attend Church/Temple/Synagogue /Mosque or Non at all.

Contrary to your post those who are defending the right of others to be a Christian and have a belief do not have a 'fear' nor do they 'smear and abuse' to make their point, they have no need to because they are tolerant of allowing others to have a belief and they do expect nor demand others to share theirs.

POGS, thank you for your post

I wonder why interviewers are fixated on asking politicians of faith about sexual matters.

They need to turn their attention to poverty and the reasons for it about which the Catholic Church has plenty to say.

In 2013, Pope Francis said: "Among our tasks as witnesses to the love of Christ is that of giving a voice to the cry of the poor." Perhaps Conservative supporting UK Catholics interpret this as meaning people in third-world countries, those starving or fleeing from war. After all, the UK doesn't have real poverty, does it?

Only it does. And the Catholic church has not shied away from discussing it. Just take this comment from the Archbishop of Westminster Cardinal Vincent Nichols:

"The administration of social assistance, I am told, has become more and more punitive. So if applicants don't get it right, then they have to wait. And they have to wait for ten days, for two weeks, with nothing – with nothing. And that's why the role of food banks has become so crucial for so many people in Britain today. And for a country of our affluence, that quite frankly is a disgrace."

Or this statement from the official social action agency of the Catholic Church in England and Wales (CSAN):

"Child benefit exists to provide for the basic needs of children; imposing limitations on the basis of family size will inevitably deprive children from larger families of essential support. It is important for the focus to remain on supporting children’s health, nutrition and other fundamental requirements, rather than setting arbitrary limits which will not only penalise people for having children, but also disproportionately impact upon parents of larger families who have fallen into difficult financial circumstances."

It's about time J R-M stopped ignoring those bits of catholic teaching that he doesn't like. His disgusting voting record on all matters of social justice makes him not fit to call himself an observant Catholic. He's as entitles as the next person to his beliefs but his hypocracy and self serving behaviour is what needs to be called out. As the only MP to vote against the Dubs amendment he needs to examine his conscience and change his behaviour.

He wasn't asked Miceelf, those are the things they should have asked sbout

The problem is POGS that you cannot see that JRM is not receiving any abuse for being a Christian. Personally I don't care what is triggering the views he has chosen to hold. What I object to are the views themselves; misogynistic and patriarchal and paternalistic. If this has come about because he is part of of a particular religion that is his problem not mine. JRM, because of his views, is someone I would be horrified to see in any leadership position.

I think to be so blinkered and rigid on this matter is terrible, but Bibbity I feel more like pushing his head into a wall, not mine.
My mum had a heartbreaking time with a son who never developed mentally and he had to go into residential care before he was three years old. She said that if a doctor had told her, "Mrs Beige, there is something we can do to prevent it," (meaning abortion) she would have replied, "Yes, please."
Many of the poorest countries in the world have rigid beliefs that abortion/birth control are wrong and as a result there are many unwanted children in orphanages living in unspeakable conditions. Is that civilised enough for you Mr Rees-Mogg?

POGS -Contrary to your post those who are defending the right of others to be a Christian and have a belief do not have a 'fear' nor do they 'smear and abuse' to make their point, they have no need to because they are tolerant of allowing others to have a belief and they do expect nor demand others to share theirs.

Summed up wonderfully POGS. Thank you.

I worry about the blinkers worn by some of the left wing posters here, I really do.

ilbc, I too believe in choice and that a woman should be able to choose whether to end a pregnancy or not.

I cannot however castigate JRM for thinking differently because of his faith.

He thinks that way, I don't. Millions think as he does. I don't. I can live with an MP having a faith which makes him hold views I don't share. He cannot change the law and he cannot impose his views on me.

I can live with that. I can live with any number of people who think differently from me, and appreciate they have a right to hold their own views.

I don't have to agree with them or dislike them.

But we also have a right to be concerned about the fact that someone in a position of power 'might' be swayed by their beliefs and take away our rights to things such as abortion [especially if their party is clinging onto power with the help of another party that holds similar views]. It doesn't mean to say that we are sure that person will choose to follow that course of action. But we must always assume that it could happen. I don't actually trust anyone these days. The assumption seems to be that anyone who dislikes JRM is a far left extremist; I am, in fact, pretty much slightly left of centre and am just as likely to vote LibDem as Labour. It's terribly sad if someone has to make the decision to abort an unborn child, but the right to do so must exist if the circumstances are right; to believe otherwise is totally 'blinkered' [imo]. And, there is a possibility that JRM might, one day have the power to change the law, especially if the repeal bill goes through. We live in very worrying times, politically.

Just as worrying is the thought of Corbyn making his own laws, think Venezuela which he holds as an example of how a country should be run..

Perhaps those who are against abortion( no matter what the possible appalling circumstances of the pregnancy might be) should be forced to be befrienders of the families concerned & help in their upbringing, maybe then they would not be so quick to pontificate on the rights & wrongs of what is after all a very very personal decision based on each persons circumstances .

Tegan2 I think we've moved into the 21st century and many here are still in the middle of the last century ..or at least their attitudes are .I would say I'm left of centre ,a socialist but in no way extreme I believe our responsibilty is to the children already living in poverty ,the ones disabled that the tories are punishing by cutting benefits ,the children who need financial support...not making the women who do have terminations feel any more guilt than most already do or adding more children to the poverty statistics

Annie I really think you need help with your Corbyn obsession,it seems to have taken over your life....even making you accept the awful voting record of JRM that has imposed more austerity and poverty on people who already struggle...as a labour voter I would have expected you to be bloody angry at JRM 's attitude to the poor in this country

.paddyann, with respect,you need a sense of humour transplant

Do you think he is the only one with those beliefs , those choices ? You must live a very narrow life

And I do not have a Corbyn obsession, I do fight against dishonesty and betrayal which sums up that man. No different to my views of thatcher .

MiceElf Fri 08-Sep-17 13:40:26

Well put MiceElf. If JRM is the politician people think he is he could have deflected and told us about what he wants to do for the poor - but then he doesn't, does he.

The storm in a teacup keeps on brewing.Hands are wrung, posters are 'appalled'. Well summed up POGS
Do posters think even if he ever became PM that he would be a sort of Emperor/Dictator who could make up policies on a whim.?

The main point is that it was his own views on a subject when asked about it.I do not happen to agree with him, but he has every right to hold those views on abortion.Many people do.