To hav3 had enough of Harvey Weinstein on the radio

Good points raised there Anniebach

I am not doing any such comparison. Any and all such crimes are abhorrent. Crimes against women are part of a continuum that can lead to abuse of children. They're not separate things.

There is an article on the BBC today entitled Harvey Weinstein: did everyone really know? It details exactly how he got away with this for years.

Of course 'cared for' children are more vulnerable than aspiring actors. The former have little choice in anything. If they run away they'll either be found and taken back to the same institution or be befriended by other people on the fringes of society. These people may or may not exploit or abuse them but are rarely in a position to give them a secure life.
Actors are older and can make their own minds up whether allowing a grope is worth it or time to take a stand against selfish sleaze bags.
On a lighter note at least I now know why some A listers wore those ghastly, unflattering, over embellished gowns by HW's wife.

GG your criticism of my comments are unfair, or perhaps I did not make myself clear. I was not, in anyway, victim blaming and I resent the implication that I was. What I was trying to convey, perhaps clumsily, that the victims of HW, as far as we can see, did have the choice to walk away, something which children in care being abused by their guardians did not. I am not in any way saying that a man is above the law, or that the victims, adult or child are to blame.

He has not yet been charged with any crime SueDonim, and groping women does not mean it leads to child abuse .

One woman accepted a pay off, she was willing to accept payment so hardly a victim. And if these woman were traumatised why did they appear at award ceremonies with him.

I just cannot share the view these women were victims, if his reputation as a groper was so widely known why did some meet him in hotel rooms ?

I'm uncomfortable with this notions of a hierarchy of victims. My experience is that some of us are more resilient than others. Some can experience horrific childhood abuse yet seem less unable to live.a life than someone who may be thought to have suffered "less".
It's also true that many men who abuse adult / young women, are indiscriminate in their abuse and may sexually assault small boys or girls if the opportunity arises.
Call me old fashioned but I thought the "casting couch" was something that happened and was seen as the norm, in the 1950's but that it was now seen as sleezy and exploitative. To blame the young women (and I'm sure young men) who weren't tough enough to withstand the powerful men who could make or break their career, rather than putting responsibility where it needs to be, with the abuser.
I hope the HW issue will lead to more discussion about relationships. sexual exploitation and abuse and what NO really means and how to say it.
Anyone who has worked with survivors or young children beginning to talk about their abuse experience will be familiar with the facts. Sexual abuse and exploitation is part of every day life sadly.

The casting couch is as strong as ever, and it is not that I am blaming the girls and excusing the men. Did H .Hefner ever have accusations of sexually abusing children?

There has always been lecherous men but to link them with child sex abuse is wrong.

I do not see all these girls as victims , was Paltrow and Jolie in danger of damaging their careers by speaking out

jezebel.com/heres-gwyneth-paltrow-and-david-letterman-casually-disc-1819401114

I have to agree Iam. Degrees of abuse worry me.

AB This man is using his power to abuse people women. Why make excuses for the man him.? Why is it that you are willing to let him behave like this. It reminds me of when men could batter their wives more easily and other women would tut and mutter and find some reason why it was her fault. If, instead of sexually assaulting someone he had beaten them up would it still be their fault. Assault is surely assault.

him

Yes, its a great pity but it seems that dreadful phrase "the catching couch" which means that would be actors may be expected or coerced into sexual activity with producers, is alive and well.

No one suggested all predatory, sexually abusive men are also likely to sexually abuse children. Some are and it can be part of a pattern of the abuse of power, the use of sex as a means of self gratification and control of victims.. It isn't unusual for such individuals to come from families where sexual boundaries are blurred to say the least

It isn't the women who make the allegations who are responsible for HW's behaviour. The radio news this afternoon reported that HW is seeking 'treatment' and admits all but the more serious allegations against him. He didn't sound contrite in the clip I heard.

So many young women experience sexual harassment in the workplace, in the street and generally in their lives. It isn't surprising that it may be even more prevalent in the entertainment industry - in La La Land.

Sorry GracesGran, I was typing as you posted. Thanks for your comment.

As usual GG, you claim you have read what you want to read and not what is my post,

I HAVE NOT MADE EXCUSES FOR THE MAN, capitals in case you accidentally misread yet again.

He is a leacherous creep, but going by some posts here, gropers will become child sex abusers.

So I wonder how many of us have worked with, dated, stood in a queue with child sex abusers, seems most of us.

I do not agree these woman were naive, vulnerable women, they grittier their teeth and put up with his groping in the hope of getting into films. Stupid yes, but vulnerable ? No

Geyneth Paltrow look traumatised / distressed in the clip I
posted?

Some of the remarks on here - which blame women for their own mistreatment - explain why we remain in the situation where powerful men feel they have the right to use that power to abuse and intimidate women.

From what I have seen and read, some women felt they had to submit to this sort of treatment in order to be employable. Other women say that they did not go along with this man's demands and, in fighting off his attentions, were intimidated, belittled and frightened.

Whilst at the moment it is the high profile film industry which is under the microscope, there are no doubt instances in other employment fields where women have felt sexually intimidated, or worse, by their male bosses. It is not a new phenomenon. Historically women have been seen as inferior to men and their function as primarily to serve the needs of men. Whilst much has changed since those times, there is still a disproportionate amount of power accorded to men and an underlying lack of respect for women.

In my view, there is certainly not too much coverage of this issue. As other commentators have said, this is not just about one man but about a culture - even in countries that like to see themselves as "civilised" - in which women are not accorded the same respect as men.

So any woman AB who has been subjected to being cornered by a man, in a position of power, who has her trapped in a place she cannot make safe for herself, who is bigger and heavier than her and who is threatening her career now knows that you and women like you will see her as someone who will grit their teeth and put up with his groping - or worse - in the hope of furthering their career.

Whatever anyone who has been in that position felt before about their abuse you really will have made them feel far, far worse and made the chances of anyone actually reporting such behaviour much less likely for fear of comments like yours.

Anniebach to quote your own words '...you have read what you want to read and not what is my post,...'

What I said was that these acts are part of a continuum that CAN lead to child sex abuse. I think the continuum begins with wolf whistles and can end up with the kind of crimes that make horrendous news articles. Some may never do more than wolf whistle. Others may not stop until they reach the most hideous depravities.

As for HW, I didn't say he was guilty of any crimes. He has, however, confessed to committing a number of unpleasant acts.

I find it very sad that people are still prepared to put the blame on the women themselves for falling prey to such situations. I thought we'd moved on from the days of blaming women for being raped because they wore a mini skirt.

What a load of cobblers!

Straw man.

You misrepresented someone's argument to make it easier to attack.
By exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, it's much easier to present your own position as being reasonable, but this kind of dishonesty serves to undermine honest rational debate.

There are a couple of BBC interviews on line this morning that I thought discussed the issues here well. One is with Emma Thompson and the other with Jane Fonda. Emma T says she spent time in her 20's trying to keep old mens tongues out of her mouth. Jane F said she heard rumours about HW a year or so ago and didn't speak out because she didn't have first hand experience of it. Both make the point that the now famous women who allege HW behaved inappropriately or tried to coerce them into sexual behaviour with him, were then much younger, some 17 some in their early 20's.
I don't know about anyone else here but I'm much more confident now than I was in my 20's. In one office I worked in, an older man would walk up and stand very close to us young women. If you moved, he moved with you. It was most peculiar and very unpleasant. I complained to the office manager who agreed that his man always behaved like that but as he didn't go any further, it was best to ignore him. Ok don't deal with the man then.

I was groped and slobbered over by a disgusting older (married) boss when I was in my 20's (he was in his 50's) he stunk of cigarette smoke and he would grab me from behind and try to kiss me. I was terrified of being alone in the office with him and used to maneuver myself toward the exit whenever he entered the room. He once told me that he had "dreams" about what he would do to me which was the final straw. I couldn't tell anyone as I was terrified of losing my job (I was a single mum at the time) but did manage to pluck the courage up to tell a young lad in the factory who told me that he suspected that was why the woman before me had left. I did eventually find a new job but wonder about the poor (young, because she would have been) girl who replaced me.

gillybob - you make the point well, most of us have had very similar experiences. I got a part time job managing an office when my oldest started school. The woman I was replacing warned me the owner was a groper but she felt I'd manage him better than she could
He was disgusting, physically and also his personal hygiene was poor. I could live with that but he behaved in the way you describe, he'd also grab, hold, touch inappropriately. Nowadays I'd have reported him but then, it was genuinely seen as "normal" for some men to behave like that. By the end of week 1 I told him if he ever touched me, came into my personal space again, I'd walk out. It worked. He knew his behaviour wasn't acceptable and he was able to control it. I stayed because I needed the money, enjoyed the varied work and the hours suited school perfectly.
I don't feel scared for life because of this experience but I wish I'd been in a stronger position financially and more able to find child friendly hours. Also the job itself was great on my CV - I did a year and left

Same on every thread Anya

My quandary Iam64 is that if he ever appeared on the news accused of some sex crime or other, would I keep quiet or would I come forward? Not for any personal gain ( I put that particular nasty time away many moons ago) but for the accused so she would be believed ?
I agree there were a lot if these types around back in the day. They got away with it because we had nowhere to turn and we needed the job.

Should have said the "accuser" not the accused, or rather the victim.

I am shocked to see some of the comments on here and don't feel that Gracesgran is "going over the top" in feeling very strongly about men who appear to believe they have the right to use and abuse women. We have had comments such as:

"Hollywood is not the real world" (I'm not sure what that means. These women are "real women". Just because they work in a superficial and non-essential job (as do many other people) does that mean they must accept this sort of behaviour?

"The people who were abused here were victims but they were adults, adults who had an element of choice ..... these adults could have decided that getting into or staying in the film industry was not what they wanted"

"These women were only "vulnerable" in as much as it affected their careers" (Isn't a woman's career of importance then? Should women who are routinely intimidated in their work simply decide to give up their ambitions and do something else?).

"[these women] not your usual victim types" (whatever does that mean?).

Feeling strongly about this issue does not detract from the obscenity of what has happened, and continues to happen, to children. One does not cancel out the other. Both these issues are about the misuse of power. Why is it felt that being outraged by this man's behaviour somehow renders what happens to children less important?