To hav3 had enough of Harvey Weinstein on the radio

That boss to which I referred would have never been sacked or replaced if I had spoken out Eloethan I on the other hand would have probably been out the door for causing trouble and he knew how much I needed that job so had no choice out to put up and shut up .

Several really good and thoughtful comment - good to see them.

To me it appears that one man has committed many crimes. He either has or he hasn't. He, from what we have heard him actually saying, appears to have no idea of what 'consensual' means. He is a manipulative bully - we have heard that from his own mouth. He is an adult responsible for his own actions.

It is simply the case that bad things do happen to good people and the bad people perpetrating the bad things do not always get punished.

It may make people feel less frightened of the world to infer this only happened if there was some 'reason' - in this case the possible character of the victim - but actually all that does is enable more bad things to happen to more good people and more bad people to go unpunished.

Why oh why don't I use the preview button? Hope you understood that gobbledegook.

Gilly after reading all the gobbledegook on here, already, your post makes perfect sense.

Gillybob - I do use the preview button and still manage to produce gobbledegook so I hope people can sort mine out too.

It is really good to read the reasoned and thoughtful posts as I am actually really shocked - not at the victim blaming - we all want to find reasons for the unreasonable - but that people, in this day and age, cannot see what they are doing and what it does to our culture.

To me the victim blaming they are undertaking is no better than the men in Rotherham, and some of those in the services that should protect the victims, blaming the child victims. It was the men that were culpable not the victims and it is this man who is in the wrong - not his victims.

I’ll save my sympathy for those victims who had no choice in the matter. Woman who were forced into sexual acts and children.

I’ve no time for those who constantly see women as victims. Portraying them as week and at the mercy of men does them no favours. The message should be that women are strong, women have choices and it’s OK to say no, OK to tell. For those who have no choice I cry.

But for those who stand in shock while, as an actual example, this idiot masturbates into a plant pot in her presence and keeps schtum, then I say ‘Sister, FFS, shout that from the rooftops loud and clear’.

Like many on here I suspect, I was groped at work. He was a very senior person within the company,and made a very vulgar comment as he brushed against me ( I was bending over to get something out of a drawer). Luckily, the men I worked with were angry on my behalf and told me to complain, they would back me up. I did, and he was made to apologise to me in the HR office. A small victory, although he qualified it by saying it was a misunderstanding. Still at least his card was marked, I kept my job, and he didn't do it to anyone else as far as I know. I do understand that not everyone has this option, and can I repeat again, I am not victim blaming.

I think have to view this in many ways. Firstly it has nothing at all to do with child abuse and there is not some sort of a sliding scale where people slip from one form of abuse to another. Secondly this took place in Hollywood in an industry which judges women by their looks and where they negotiate what they are worth mostly by this and what they are prepared to do. So some actresses will appear naked in sex scenes, some won't. Equally some women will have sex with someone who is powerful and might help them and their careers, and some won't. This isn't excusing any instance of assault or of Weinstein using his power to co-erce any woman into having sex, simply pointing out that the context of what happened is important. And that the border between payment for sex (in kind, not necessarily in cash), consensual sex and coerced sex are not necessarily as clear and obvious as is being assumed. Of course the women who said 'no' were entitled to do so and he should not have proceeded, but equally the women involved could have spoken out some time ago and chose not to, that they have chosen to do so after a substantial payment was made to an accuser must cast a shadow over their reasons.

Well said Anya and Trisher .

Will we have posts on the treatment of kitchen maids in the 19th century ?

I wonder if all these complaints are true or is it like many other abuse allegations, some true some some not.

Still victim blaming deciding who you will choose to see as victims and who are not Anya and Trisher even though you have no evidence whatsoever.

All abuse is abuse. There is no hierarchy.

Rather than wasting your energy making yourselves happier people by reducing the empathy you have for others why not use that energy to make the world a more just place.

Why not fight the impulse to rationalize what has happened and recognize that you, in different circumstances, could have been in their shoes. It does not make anything less illegal because of the industry it takes place in or because of the culture or because of the clothes people wear.

Why not use the compassion - which you seem prepared to give up to make these awful crimes seem acceptable to yourselves - to work for a more equal workplace and one where people can always be heard if they complain and where they will not have others dreaming up a vision of who they are in order to make themselves feel better.

These are alleged awful crimes GGMk2 so let's not start being judge and jury here before a proper or indeed any trial has been held. Are you then saying that there are no women who are prepared to sexually service a powerful man and/or ignore his actions because they think this is acceptable as a trade for career advancement? Or that these women are victims because they choose to do so? I think that times have moved on and we now have some women (and in some ways I admire them) who are fully aware of their sexuality and are prepared to use it. Of course there are real victims, but not all women are victims and casting them as such is actually demeaning women.

"I think that times have moved on and we now have some women (and in some ways I admire them) who are fully aware of their sexuality and are prepared to use it."

Ive heard that same argument to describe a so called "seductive" 7 year old trisher. Or even younger children. It's particularly evident when the 'victim' is 12 years or older, whatever the child's gender.

I don't believe that predators always move between various types of abuse but some certainly do. I am not suggesting HW is someone who would abuse children, so far there's no evidence of that. One of the shocking things I learned this week, that I hadn't previously been aware of is that when Polanski was given some award (in his absence of course), Meryl Streep stood to lead a standing ovation. So very disappointing given his guilty plea to various hideous offences to one 13 year old girl. As we all know, he fled the US to avoid serving a prison sentence and has since been accused of a sexual offence in Europe.

Oh let's label all men as sexual predators and as prospective child abusers then shall we Iam64 and make out that all women are victims and are never able to manipulate or use anyone in any sexual way whatsoever for their own purposes? Of course some men do as you say, but equally there are women, and I emphasise this is WOMEN not under age girls and not children who decide that actually if they want a part in a film the best way to get it is to have sex with someone who can get them it. To deny this is to infantilise women and in effect to put them back over 100 years and make them poor things who are unable to speak or think for themselves but need protection at all times.

Anya: But for those who stand in shock while, as an actual example, this idiot masturbates into a plant pot in her presence and keeps schtum, then I say ‘Sister, FFS, shout that from the rooftops loud and clear’.

*Sophie Dix*:
“I was very, very vocal about it at the time. I didn’t want to own it. I wanted people to take it away from me. But I was met with a wall of silence. People who were involved in the film were great, my friends and my family were amazing and very compassionate, but people in the industry didn’t want to know about it, they didn’t want to hear."

How much louder should she have been Anya?

You can choose to tell the industry or to tell the legal system Cherry the question is why didn't she tell the police or the papers? Perhaps at the time she thought it worth advancing her career and now she doesn't. This doesn't make what he did right it just asks why she kept it quiet.

I kept quiet because I bloody well needed that job to feed and clothe my son trisher Yes i was terrified of what the creep might do next but I was equally terrified of losing my job.

Trisher what would be the point of her telling the police? It would be his word against hers, and in the 80s the attitude of the police was to assume the victim had "asked for it" unless they could produce proof or a witness.

And the same applies now, there is no proof but it gets publicity, this is what concerns me, how many are speaking the truth ? Why wait forty years ?

It will be interesting to see if more Celebrities in the US are going to be accused of sexual abuse. After the Jimmy Savile case over here, lots of other abusers were investigated. Rolf Harris etc etc.

Perhaps Trump will be named and shamed?

I haven't for one moment suggested I'm labelling all men as prospective child abusers or labelling all women as victims. I'm certainly nor infantilising women and I can't imagine any of my comments would lead to that conclusion, This kind of thread illustrates how easy it is to polarise any discussion of issues that are never straightforward.
I don't see it as "progress" nor do I rather admire anyone who uses sex to further their career. Call me a stuffy old woman, I'm happy to own that.

As for why wait forty years and how many are speaking the truth? The evidence suggests that false allegations are rare. It also shows that people often wait for long periods before they feel able to speak out. Look at the evidence currently being presented to the investigations within the Church and to the Institutional Child Abuse panel.

What would be the point in her telling the police?

Now let me think about that ?

Emm...well, for a start it would have been at least recorded and then if someone else made a complaint...and then perhaps he’d have been halted in his tracks years ago cherry

Can’t believe you wrote that in all seriousness. Why do you think these abusers get away with it? ????

One might as well ask why many of the victims of the well known abusers we've all seen in the media in recent years waited so long to complain. The answer to me seems simple - they wouldn't have been believed as evinced by some posters on this bread or would have been regarded as 'asking for it'.

It would have been one young woman's word against the word of a very powerful, lawyered-up man and also a battle against the forces within Hollywood that conspired to keep this hidden for forty years or more.

It also appears that people did try to bring this to the fore a number of times so it isn't a matter of no one saying anything or of women jumping on a bandwagon. Read this article which has it in a nutshell. www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41593384

No Sue it would have been the word of lots of young women if they’d all spoken up.

Anyway this is all pointless as there will never be agreement between those who glorify in the ‘poor little defenceless women’ image and those of us who’d have kneed the pervert in the balls ...and actually did.

As far as I’m concerned the two views are never going to be reconciled so no point in adding anything more. Bye.

Trisher and Anya I really have to wonder why you need, so desperately, to defend this culture. It really does beg many questions.

NO NO NO. * maryeliza54* Donna Karan the fashion designer you refer to designs cleavage and thigh revealing dresses for women to wear to ask for it in.

Women do NOT "ask for it"