To hav3 had enough of Harvey Weinstein on the radio

Agreed Norah, I thought we'd moved on from when a woman who wore low neck tops or short skirts was "asking for it". How depressing that, in the 21st century, that opinion by women, about women, prevails. The responsibility for a man not abusing a woman lies entirely with men.

Anya, Trisher and AB you seem to be unable to see people as individuals. Trisher you have attacked Iam with:

Oh let's label all men as sexual predators and as prospective child abusers then shall we
But that is certainly not what Iam did. She is able to see individuals in all this.

You also said to me
Are you then saying that there are no women who are prepared to sexually service a powerful man and/or ignore his actions because they think this is acceptable as a trade for career advancement?

What has that to do with any of the individuals who have been brave enough to shout out the behaviour of a man which has been known about for years apparently. You seem able to ignore that, lump the victims into a group, suggest they do not meet your moral standards and offer not one iota of sympathy for the individuals concerned.

I have a feeling I have seen you do this with other issues people have too. Lump them in a group, disparage the group and then the rest of society can get on without any concern for them. Why? Would you like someone to do that to you? Or would you want them to see you as an individual? You almost seem to be saying that these women are being disloyal to society - what is that about?

Norah I was quoting her - she said that women often dressed in a way that was ‘asking for it’ I then made the observation that she designed these sort of dresses. I’ll see if I can post the video of her disgusting comments.

I never think that how women dress is relevant to how men behave

Hope this works - sorry my post was a bit misleading I can see that

adage.com/article/media/donna-karan-s-harvey-weinstein-crisis/310823/

I am sorry to misunderstand you maryeliza54. Forgive?

This is a DK dress which just shows what an absolute hypocrite she is. I’m sorry Norah for my post being too elliptical

We’re not defending any culture GG except possibly standing out against that which said women are such poor creatures that they have no responsibility for their own actions. You on the other hand are determined to portray them as victims.

I can’t understand your attitude any more than you seem to get my point, and resort to strawman debating, as I pointed out before.

Are we women or mice?

GGMK2I have not defended the culture simply explained little more about it to some of you who seem to think that it is something like a 1960's office.
Nor have I lumped all the victims into a group I have said some women see sexual favours as a way of advancing their career. Therefore some women obviously don't. Far from attacking a whole group I am trying to explain different rules apply sometimes.
So Reason why the abuse wasn't reported in the 1980's
The Weinstein bros were just getting started and were by no means as affluent as now. (or as powerful)
Which also makes you think it should have been possible to get a prosecution.
Reasons why it is reported now.
A substantial settlement has already been paid out
Some people like publicity
Some have flagging careers
I have not said there were no victims. I have not said his behaviour was acceptable.
I have said the situation is not as black and white as some people seem to think and that I dislike this portrayal of women as always being victims. In fact GGMK2 I very much doubt if you have read my posts at all. It is this clumping together of all women and assigning them the role of victim that I dislike. Some women will have used their sexuality to get what they wanted. Some women will have been coerced into having sex with him. Some women will have refused his advances and walked away. I do not know which category all of the women who are now making accusations come into. I do not know how many of these accusations are true. I do not know what part the possibility of financial gain or publicity is playing in this whole sorry saga. And neither does anyone else. It is this whole culture of a woman said it so it must be true that I find unacceptable. He may be the worst abuser the world has ever known but this trial and judgement by the media is disgusting.

GG, We are individuals this is why I question your claim of lumping all women together as victims

We’re not defending any culture GG except possibly standing out against that which said women are such poor creatures that they have no responsibility for their own actions. You on the other hand are determined to portray them as victims.

You have done exactly the same thing again Anya. I thought these individual women might be victims - I did not describe all women as victims as you suggest.

On the other hand you can only talk about women as a group, or rather two groups, those that take responsibility and those who don't.

I imagine you feel you belong to the first group - and are therefore, because of your own perceived behavior, safe - while the women who are speaking out about Harvey Weinstein seem to have all been placed by you (no evidence, of course) into the second group which you and others seem to feel explains why they were not safe - all opprobrium dumped on them, none on Harvey Weinstein who is - something you seem happy to forget - the perpetrator.

Alleged perpetrator

OFFS we haven't said anything of the kind and he is the accused not necessarily the perpetrator unless the system of innocent until proved guilty has been replaced with trial by media.
We have said there is more going on than many of you seem to realise or even consider.

Agree with OP. It is NOT the most important thing in the news and should not have top billing. I'd never even heard of him. The media always get swept away with the excitement of a story that is about the media.

Anya, how were the women who say they were assaulted to know that other women had had the same thing happen to them? It's not the sort of thing you go shouting from the rooftops 'Hey, guess what, my boss assaulted me today!' Some women might feel able to do so, many others would fear being blamed, as shown by this thread.

If you read the BBC article, it shows quite clearly how many people suspected HW of misdeeds but were unable to act on those suspicions.

For me, the whole thing isn't a matter of who is a victim and who isn't, it's that someone has allegedly been able to do evil things with impunity.

Just heard on the BBC news, Goldman Sachs are going to have to reconsider if they can continue investing in Harvey Weinstein's companies. Obviously such a bastion of the high moral ground cannot tarnish their image by association with any dodgy ventures.

There is no proof as to the nature and extent of his allegedly lewd, intimidating and aggressive behaviour but the fact that he has apologised and said "everyone makes mistakes" does suggest that there are grounds for at least some of the complaints. And why settle (several) cases out of Court if you are not responsible for any of the behaviour cited?

He is a rich and powerful man with many powerful contacts. It is necessary to have concrete evidence to make a complaint to the police (tbe burden of proof is far higher in a criminal than a civil case). I would imagine most newspapers would steer well clear of such allegations for fear of a libel case being brought against them. I believe Ashley Judd was the first woman to make these claims, and it was a big risk. If no other women had then come forward to make similar claims, she could also have left herself open to civil proceedings for slander and would probably never have worked in the industry again.

It is not just about women being treated badly. It is about powerful people using that power to exploit and intimidate people who do not have the same resources to defend themselves.

Agreed Eleothan - however the media are focussed on him and his fall from grace rather than any of the wider issues. But when Trump is doing his best to fall out with Iran and withdrawing support for birth control for poor women, Iraq is about to start a war with the Kurds and it feels like May et all have us all in the back of a lorry hurtling towards a cliff edge with the accelerator pressed firmly to the floor, while they squabble on the front seat...

One woman claimed she was raped but did go on to have an affair with him !

Why if it happened and if it was widely known about would a woman settle for payment Eleothen? Doesn't say much for the sisterhood does it ?
Mud sticks of course and paying was a way of stopping the inevitable consequences of publicity and the huge financial losses that might be involved.
Just saying there are always two ways to look at things.

trisher, are you suggesting that the allegations against HW have no basis in truth?

Quite possible there are several movie makers having panic attacks

I'm saying that a too simplistic approach has been taken to this by many posters, that there may be some truth in some allegations, but not necessarily in all. I also hate this assumption that women always tell the truth and men must be predators. There is undoubtedly some truth, but the fact remains that many women did not report anything at the time and remained quiet until money began to change hands. I don't think anybody comes out of this shiny bright and smelling of roses. And I hate this trial by media. He may be a sexual predator but he shouldn't be condemned without a proper trial.

Why if it happened and if it was widely known about would a woman settle for payment Eleothen? Doesn't say much for the sisterhood does it?

I don't understand what the sisterhood has to do with men's sense of entitlement and lack of knowledge of what consensual sex actually means. Or of their lack of understanding that it is they who should not break the law or the rules of the workplace.

I also hate this assumption that women always tell the truth and men must be predators.

Please give me a link to the post or posts that have said this. I do not remember reading any. I do remember reading fanciful attacks on women's behaviour but few actually pointing out the law breaking that may have gone on in this case - possibly for 30 years. It will take an in depth investigation and, if it is seen to be appropriate a trial - we know that - but the very act of justifying this man's possible behaviour by demeaning women will just encourage the culture that allows it to continue. Where's the sisterhood in that?