AIBU to think Jeremy Hunt is unfair to put conditions on the nurses pay rise

I for one would not mind paying more tax, though on the condition that the major conglomerates, royalty, sports stars and everyone who can afford a tax avoidance scheme pay theirs too.

I couldn't agree more about the carers HOTMT but I would add that, when the unions have done this we all realise we will have to pay more tax to make it possible.

Here here holdingontometeeth

We seem to have gone off topic here, but it seems that our nurses and their assistants at the top of their pay band are to get a rise of 6.5% over 3 years. Their colleagues lower down the scales are to get bigger percentage rises.
Care workers often do a filthy, undervalued and grossly underpaid job, exploited not only by private agencies but government authorities too.
Lets hope that in the not too distant future the unions will make a prolonged effort to get all care workers a living wage and working conditions including paid travel time to each visit which would be acceptable to any reasonably minded individual.

This looks like Hunt's offer to nurses is a big con.

"Leeds East Labour MP Richard Burgon is demanding a full public consultation on plans by Leeds Teaching Hospitals to set up a private company to employ NHS staff.

Like other NHS trusts in the region, management wants to transfer 2,300 staff such as porters, cleaners, housekeepers, clinical engineers, procurement and supplies to a “wholly owned subsidiary company”.
But UNISON is campaigning against the plans because they will create a two-tier workforce as new staff coming into the service will start on worse pay and conditions than existing staff.

Mr Burgon said he wanted a full public consultation so that NHS staff and the people of Leeds can have their say on the privatisation plans.

He said: “NHS Trusts in Airedale and Harrogate – where similar privatisation plans are proposed – have chosen to ignore the views of their staff who have grave concerns about their pay and working conditions in the future.

“I was appalled to see a bank porter’s job advertised at £8 an hour with basic pension and no unsocial hours payment by the new wholly owned company at Airedale Hospital. This is exactly what NHS staff are so worried about.

“As a former employment lawyer I know that the TUPE regulations designed to protect pay and conditions if jobs are transferred can be easily changed for “economic, technical or organisational” reasons.

“The creation of a two-tier workforce in large hospitals such as St James’s and Pinderfields could replicate the worst excesses of the private sector, with zero hours contracts similar to those advertised at Airedale, including cuts to holiday entitlements and sick pay. It would make it harder to recruit and retain staff which will inevitably have a negative impact on standards of care for the people of Leeds.

“I believe these plans should be scrapped and I am calling on the Trust to consult widely with their staff and with the public so the dangers of the proposed subsidiary company are widely known.”

One of the reasons NHS Trusts want to set up separate companies to employ staff is a loophole which allows subsidiary companies to reclaim VAT – something which NHS Trusts are not allowed to do.

But Labour’s Shadow Health Secretary Jonathon Ashworth has written to Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt demanding that the tax loophole be closed and the privatisation plans dropped.

Richard Burgon said: “We could see industrial action across the whole of West Yorkshire if Trusts plough ahead with their plans.
“NHS staff have been subjected to years of frozen pay and lost thousands of pounds in income and now they are being threatened with privatisation. This obviously damages morale and I am doing everything I can to persuade Leeds Teaching Hospitals to listen to their staff and the public and drop this disastrous plan.

“I shall be making my views known to the Hospital’s bosses before the Trust Board meets on March 29.”

Sorry to hear that MissA .

That's rubbish. Having said that, if things continue the way they are around here, I might be right behind you in the queue.

I'm off to the job centre tomorrow (oh joy!!) So I shall report back on terms and conditions in social care jobs, since I shall be forced into one, no doubt.

That was around 5 months ago, graces.
I'm still in touch with the women that work there, and the wage is still the same.
Admittedly, even for care work, its low, but that seems to be the norm now.
Its far less than I was earning 15 years ago!
I think the more reasonable 'going rate' now is around 7.80 or so an hour.

I don't know how any company could do it for £17.92 per hour GGM2 so not surprised to hear some have gone out of business.

When you consider how much has to come out of that.

I am not sure if this is any help but our local authority pays a maximum of £17.92 per hour, currently. There is only one company that is prepared to work at that rate. There used to be three but the other two have either gone out of business or refused to work for the council. It much less than the average of £24.77 we pay for an "hour" of care. The companies simply do not charge in a simple, by the hour amount although that is how council payments work. The travel/mileage amount is on each call, be it half an hour or a longer period. The charges at the weekend are more per period too. The charges for a half hour are more than half the cost of an hour. The council simply do not take any of this into account and their "hour" simply does not cover the cost so they are often in a position where you cannot find care at council payment level.

MissAdventure it would be useful to know when that was. In our area currently one (randomly chosen) company is offering £7.55 to £9.20 per hour - I assume travel is now being paid on top of this as an expense. The company also has quite considerable overheads to take into account.

If I do an off the top of my head calculation on those pay rates I would not be surprised to see the company charging around £25 an hour. If fact it is going up in April so it will be about that amount. By not taking into account the actual market cost the Council has, until recently, skewed the market. It seems that the government wants it all ways - that we have a market place in care and that people work for less than the market price for the state. That has to mean the collapse of the market at some point.

I think just (or around) minimum wage, trisher. Disgraceful when you consider what they have to do.

£17.50 is no where near enough to pay a care agency. They will have masses of costs to pay out of that.

7.50 an hour was my last wage as a care worker.

Does anyone know how much care workers are pid? I was looking at care agencies and noticed sometimes charge £17.50 an hour for care. I wondered how much went to the carers and how much to the agency.

I have seen them in action more times than I care to remember and honestly don’t know how they do it . Usually on or around Minimum wage, no travelling expenses , they often suffer abuse and sometimes have to work in the most disgusting filthy conditions too.

I certainly think they should be at the top of the list gillybob - but I wouldn't stop there. For them it is not just the pay but the conditions too. Little or no training, few meetings to exchange best practice, understand clients and feel part of a team and, of course, the low pay.

I agree.

The people I think deserve unconditional pay rises are care workers. Those unqualified, very low paid ( mostly young women) who trudge around the streets until all hours making sure our elderly are safe and well . They don’t get the wages or the admiration of a hospital nurse and not a fraction of the pay. Yet what would we do without them?

No - a qualified health care assistant with proper training and regulation- there are a very clear range of tasks that can be identified as suitable for this role. At the moment, it varies enormously I believe.

That would be a huge step forward and should bring with it better pay and conditions for the Care Assistant. It would also help with the fact that social care and medical care cross over and back.

The request to loose a days leave has gone and a 6.5% pay offer has been made - which I believe would make up for lost pay under the years of the cap ... except it is going to be made over three years. Not good enough in my mind. Austerity did not hit those at the top of the tree but it is still hitting those NHS staff who bore the brunt of it all the way through this artificial pay setting.

“Ministers drop demand that NHS staff give up day’s leave for pay rise”
Hot off the press- announcement due today.

holdingonyomyteeth I think you will find, back in the times when Kenneth Baker was Secretary of State for Education, that teachers were asked to forgo three days annual leave. These were called initially Baker Days, and were for Inservice Training, which is why they are now called INSET days.

I’m not saying that this makes what Hunt wants to do right.

Seems your conjecture about a well known tactic in negotiations was spot on, maryeliza. Good spot ?

Thanks.

Great post btw holding

I think that’s because they haven’t been offered a pay increase yet

I have always held nurses, and in that term I include all involved in the nursing process, in the highest regard.
I have recently spent some time in hospital, and I left in awe and total respect of all the people involved in my care.
All the staff were totally committed towards the wellbeing of their charges.
I saw one staff nurse sat by a barely conscious very elderly man's bedside trying to feed him with such loving devotion which reinforced the term " Angels " in my thoughts.
What surprised me was the abuse and indeed violence that the nurses are open to on the wards.
F**** C** etc screamed at the top of his voice by a low life fellow patient, and another lashing out and uttering obscenities when his attempts on trying to exit the ward were blocked.
The nursing profession has long been undervalued and underpaid by successive governments, despite their mealy mouthed words to the contrary, and asking them to forgo a days holiday to facilitate a long overdue pay rise is unacceptable.
As has previously been stated, I am I full agreement that Jeremy Hunt is an utter **, a callous one at that, along with his fellow cohorts who are intent on dismantling the NHS.
I haven't read of any other section of the Public Sector workers being asked to forgo a days annual leave as part of their pay increment.