AIBU to think Jeremy Hunt is unfair to put conditions on the nurses pay rise

"Why are nurses treated so badly by successive Governments"
Because they rely on the nurses' sense of duty.

Removing the training bursary was one of the most ridiculous things a government has ever done.

I asked myself that everyday for 30 years - never found an answer. Possibly if we were as organised as doctors and not been predominantly women it might have made a difference.

there is still a training bursary in Scotland and OUR nurses who were already slightly better paid are getting a 3% rise ..this year .WE raised tax by 1 penny in the pound for people earning more than £35000..so although nurses over that amount will pay a little extra in tax they will still be nearly £1000 a year better off

And of course if you average out that 6.5% over the last 10 years and the 3 to come....the days leave is just an act of spite from a government that has no concept of public service and cares even less

No, you are not being unreasonable. As ever, Jeremy Hunt is being totally unreasonable, heartless and a complete and utter ***

The more people are put off nursing within the NHS, the more agency staff have to be employed to provide sufficient cover. Result: lack of continuity and much more expensive hourly rate. Madness.

It is difficult to judge unless one knows what their current leave entitlement is and how it compares with other professions leave entitlement

It's a mean manoeuvre from a mean-minded man.

It’s irrelevant about the current entitlement and comparisons with other professions - it’s not a race to the bottom - oh wait......

‘Mean minded’ ? I applaud your restraint.????

NHS annual leave, including public holidays
The number of days of annual leave you are entitled to depends on how long you've worked in the NHS. Any previous periods of continuous service in the NHS are also taken into account.

35 days a year for first 5 years

37 days a year after 5 years' service

41 days a year after 10 years' service

Which would seem quite generous in comparison to other employees.

However, I have never heard of a conditional pay rise like this before.

www.rcn.org.uk/employment-and-pay/nhs-conditions-of-employment

maryeliza, it is nothing about races to the top bottom or anywhere else. It is a question of not leaping to conclusions without the facts - it could be that nurses leave entitlement should be raise. Just do not know without the facts.

It’s a complete red herring to even begin to discuss their leave entitlement and just done to stir up the usual divide and rule - get the plebs all joining in the race to the bottom whilst the millionaires in the cabinet laugh all the way to their stockbrokers

Well it didn’t read like that Mo - they haven’t been asking for more leave but for some more MONEY. So why even begin to discuss comparisons elsewhere except to cause mischief?

And you could have looked it up for yourself if you really wanted to know - but you probably had

maryeliza I will not jump to conclusions unless I have facts to base them on. They have been asked to give up some leave and get money in lieu. How can anyone know whether that is reasonable - or no,t if they do not know how much leave they get and how that compares with leave entitlements in comparable occupations.

If they get a fortnights leave a year that proposition would be utterly unreasonable; if they got six weeks leave and other comparable occupations got 4 weeks then the offer would not be unreasonable.

Jalima's list of annual leave does include bank holidays so the standard leave is 27 days. Most NHS Trusts allow staff to buy or sell annual leave - this would just be compulsory selling of annual leave which could be bought back.
When the NHS introduced agenda for change around ten years ago, most people got a rise but had to work longer hours - I did not appreciate that when in my late 50s!

After having pay cut after pay cut after pay cut for years in the name of austerity and lower taxes for the better off, even wanting to claw back an hour of annual leave is a bloody disgusting disgraceful mean spirited typical Tory tactic. This is about MONEY - you know that commodity that Hunt has more of tgannh3 knows what to do with

than he knows ( I’m just so furious at the idea that clawing back leave is OK)

No one has a fortnights paid leave either - the minimum in the UK is 28 days including bank holidays so it’s a stupid basis for an argument

maryeliza your emotional outburst is exactly why I want the facts. I do not reach conclusions about anything serious unless I have them. I have jumped to conclusions too often in the past and been left with egg on my face.

We have EU nurses leaving the NHS, we have fewer students training, why not just pile on another reason for no one to go into nursing!

Monica, you were given the facts by Jalima. Do you not believe her facts?