AIBU to think Jeremy Hunt is unfair to put conditions on the nurses pay rise

But these sort of arguments can be made for any of the emergency services and the armed forces and many other industry groups. Many of the emergency services work long and irregular shifts. Many: armed services, police, firemen lay their lives on the line


I am aware that the leave figures include bank holidays, most leave figures do. It is the norm.

I find I am getting resistant to the emotional arguments as they have been overused, like the little boy crying wolf. It has been called so often that I can no longer tell when it really does justify the response to some government restriction and when it doesn't.

When you choose a career, you know the salary levels, and while this does not justify being paid poorly, it is a risk you take when you enter it. DS is a university lecturer. In the New Scientist this week there is a ranking of average pay in various STEM careers. University lecturers are the worst paid. DH knew this when he chose the career he wanted to follow.

I have no opinion on the rights and wrongs of the pay package offered to nurses.. I merely observe that their leave entitlement is generous and that they are not alone in not having received proper pay rises over the last 10 years.

Yes I haven't seen any conditions attached to the increases MPs get.
I agree with Momof3 it is indeed petty.

Also members of parliament have generous annual leave

Ok MOnica I’m going to bite as i’m a paediatric nurse, the annual leave entitlement that everyone is talking about includes all the bank holidays that nurses are obviously expected to work. This also includes the fact nurses works 12/13 hour shift on bank holidays.

Also the fact that nursing is now a degree entry profession requiring good a levels to enter the degree program and could have quite easily studied a degree that would have enabled them to earn double/triple the salary. Nurses have not had a pay rise in years and even this pay rise is woeful given the rise in the cost of living. Surely it’s petty and childish to take a days annual leave away.

On the emotional side when you have held a mom screaming because her child has died, been told by a parent that you don’t like their baby because she has been told that treatment will stop and her baby will die. Seen a mom on her 1st mother’s day have to plan her babies death. Withdrawn treatment on a child, seen healthy children have their lives changed for ever by brain damage or awful non repairable injuries. I don’t think a days annual leave makes a lot of different in the grand scheme of things but maybe gives that nurse a little extra downtime.

I missed Jalima's post. Now I have read it, I think nurses have a very generous leave entitlement. DH and DD have never had more than 4 weeks leave, neither did I except when I worked for a Public Utility. It seems a reasonable quid pro quo

The fact remains that it is very difficult to recruit and retain nurses now, and there are significant staff shortages as a result. The same applies to teachers and, I believe, to doctors.

The suggested pay rise is fairly paltry. 6% is not that much when: a day's holiday is to be lost; the pay increase is to be spread over three years; there have been no increases for several years; throughout that period inflation has increased and is increasing faster now; the demands on nurses are much higher due to staff shortages.

Even if you personally feel the pay proposal is good (which I don't), is it likely to be enough to encourage more people to take up nursing and remain in the profession?

So MO did you really not know that the minimum holiday in this country is 28 days - why on earth did you use an example of a fortnight? And sod the emotional outburst comment - I know far too many hard working dedicated public sector workers that are bearing the brunt of long term pay cuts so I’ll be as emotional as I want

www.independent.co.uk/voices/stephen-hawking-jeremy-hunt-nhs-tributes-privatisation-labour-a8255436.html

Monica, you were given the facts by Jalima. Do you not believe her facts?

We have EU nurses leaving the NHS, we have fewer students training, why not just pile on another reason for no one to go into nursing!

maryeliza your emotional outburst is exactly why I want the facts. I do not reach conclusions about anything serious unless I have them. I have jumped to conclusions too often in the past and been left with egg on my face.

No one has a fortnights paid leave either - the minimum in the UK is 28 days including bank holidays so it’s a stupid basis for an argument

than he knows ( I’m just so furious at the idea that clawing back leave is OK)

After having pay cut after pay cut after pay cut for years in the name of austerity and lower taxes for the better off, even wanting to claw back an hour of annual leave is a bloody disgusting disgraceful mean spirited typical Tory tactic. This is about MONEY - you know that commodity that Hunt has more of tgannh3 knows what to do with

Jalima's list of annual leave does include bank holidays so the standard leave is 27 days. Most NHS Trusts allow staff to buy or sell annual leave - this would just be compulsory selling of annual leave which could be bought back.
When the NHS introduced agenda for change around ten years ago, most people got a rise but had to work longer hours - I did not appreciate that when in my late 50s!

maryeliza I will not jump to conclusions unless I have facts to base them on. They have been asked to give up some leave and get money in lieu. How can anyone know whether that is reasonable - or no,t if they do not know how much leave they get and how that compares with leave entitlements in comparable occupations.

If they get a fortnights leave a year that proposition would be utterly unreasonable; if they got six weeks leave and other comparable occupations got 4 weeks then the offer would not be unreasonable.

And you could have looked it up for yourself if you really wanted to know - but you probably had

Well it didn’t read like that Mo - they haven’t been asking for more leave but for some more MONEY. So why even begin to discuss comparisons elsewhere except to cause mischief?

It’s a complete red herring to even begin to discuss their leave entitlement and just done to stir up the usual divide and rule - get the plebs all joining in the race to the bottom whilst the millionaires in the cabinet laugh all the way to their stockbrokers

maryeliza, it is nothing about races to the top bottom or anywhere else. It is a question of not leaping to conclusions without the facts - it could be that nurses leave entitlement should be raise. Just do not know without the facts.

www.rcn.org.uk/employment-and-pay/nhs-conditions-of-employment

NHS annual leave, including public holidays
The number of days of annual leave you are entitled to depends on how long you've worked in the NHS. Any previous periods of continuous service in the NHS are also taken into account.

35 days a year for first 5 years

37 days a year after 5 years' service

41 days a year after 10 years' service

Which would seem quite generous in comparison to other employees.

However, I have never heard of a conditional pay rise like this before.

‘Mean minded’ ? I applaud your restraint.????

It’s irrelevant about the current entitlement and comparisons with other professions - it’s not a race to the bottom - oh wait......

It's a mean manoeuvre from a mean-minded man.