Discussion of transgender issues

Your link doesn't work Azie09, here it is again

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/media/2018/jun/13/mumsnet-transgender-row-feminism-tougher-forum-rules

I don't mind one way or another if individuals want to change their gender but I do object to transgender people demanding rights over and above those that others get. In swimming pools men transitioning to women but still legally men get to change in women's communal changing room, which makes many women uncomfortable to the point they stay home and do not swim, when they could use unisex disabled changing room separate cubicle but don't want to. In sport also men transitioning into females but still producing testosterone want to compete as women. This should only be allowed if they take hormone blockers so have no physiological advantage over women. I feel like they want it both ways to be women but not to give up their testosterone.

I agree . It always seems that the athletes want to compete as women - the other female athletes must feel cheated when a trans competitor flies past them, helped by their male body development.

As for the communal toilets, it's time we had all individual toilets for men and women. Problem solved.

The Guardian article is incredibly shallow and one sided. It is no friend of biological women and has very much embraced the propaganda of the TRA and their self Id agenda. If you want decent journalism on the issue then it’s Janice Turner of the Times. And btw the wome did not ‘break into’ the men’s pool, they just walked in in exactly the same way that the transwomen walked into tge women’s pool.

Agree with newnanny and stella. Although changing at our local baths is not an issue as it is all communal! Also in other countries, toilets are communal too. I've never had any problem with this tbh but as for sports; OF COURSE men are stronger and unfair to compete as a woman. Totally agree

Well said Maryeliza, I’ve just read the link and felt it was one sided.
Indo hope the well informed debates on mumsnet aren’t closed down

There really should not be a problem with toilets and changing rooms but I think there could be a problem in competitive sport which the sports ruling bodies will have to address.

I think there’s a problem with the attempted erasure of women as a distinct biological group which is just manifested by the issue of toilets, changing rooms and sports events and will not go away even if we could sort those three issues out.

Have you seen the latest campaign from Cancer Research? They are now erasing women from cervical cancer screening. Women are now lumped in with 'people with a cervix'.

Nurses have expressed concern that it will cause an even bigger dip in numbers who present for screening It's not uncommon for women to be ignorant about their bodies and to never have heard of a cervix. If they don't know they have one, why would they go to be tested?

I think there could be a language barrier, too. A woman with a limited knowledge of English will possibly recognise the term woman and apply it to herself but what is the likelihood of her seeing herself as a person with a cervix?

news.sky.com/story/cancer-research-uk-drops-the-word-women-from-smear-test-campaign-to-include-transgender-men-11405406

Dear grans
There is a thread on Mumsnet which might be of interest:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398737
It records notes of a meeting held recently to discuss transgender issues. My impression is that we might have work to do protecting ourselves, our daughters, our grandchildren, and our rights to equality, and our own spaces.
There is a lot of background information about the influential people and organisations pushing an agenda. I can't say read and enjoy - it is not light reading - but informative.

There have been (to my knowledge) at least 3 cases where a man or boy claimed to be female or gender-fluid and harmed women or girls in a women-only space.

A man claimed to be a trans woman and was admitted to a women's shelter where he assaulted some of the clients.

A male rapist claimed to be a trans woman and was admitted to a woman's prison where he proceeded to rape some of the inmates.

Probably the saddest of all: a "gender fluid" natal male Grade 6 student went into a girl's washroom at a school and sexually molested a Grade 1 girl.

This is EXACTLY what many of us were afraid would happen - but in the name of "political correctness" we were ignored.

The was an attractive woman on tv the other day, an athlete I believe, who had been a man and now was all woman. Her stance was that a man is a male until he no longer has his ‘bits’. Men who decide to keep their ‘bits’ are not proper women, cannot compete as women, or use their changing rooms, etc. Taking hormones, wearing makeup and telling everyone you’re a lady isn’t enough to make you one.

Agree op I find it terrifying. So much little thought through legislation which will effect women’s rights for years to come.

If you have a cock you are a man. Whatever you feel think or wish you are a bloke and shouldn’t be in women’s places.

People with a cervix indeed!!!

Women is becoming a dirty word.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-extremists-are-putting-equality-at-risk-fjv8skwz0?shareToken=2cc0c88834f61cb125951a1aefeacc37

Hr's a great guy, Trevor Phillips.

Unfortunately I think the trans movement has been taken over by some extremely aggressive trans women. A couple of these individuals have positions of Womens' Officers in the Labour Party and seem to have very little empathy, or interest with the very people they are supposed to represent. Would it be permissible for an actual man in such a similar position to aim this remark at their female opponent and I apologise for the crude nature of the language "if you don't like it you can go suck my lady d**k"? tweeted by one trans woman Officer. Another prolific statement this element make "some women have penises get over it" makes no sense to me. Not only a contradiction in terms but examples of the intimidatory language used by those who are determined to quash any objections by women who feel increasingly alarmed at prospective changes that may be implemented if they are enshrined in law.

I'm sick of hearing about it. I don't believe most of them. I only know - never let them in a Women's Refuge!

Hear hear Trevor Phillips always the voice of sense and always fair and unbiased.

I think that there is a fundamental problem. Transgender people feel strongly that they are not the person that they are registered or assigned to be – and that must be hugely hard. But, I wonder when a man says I feel like a woman, does he actually have any idea what it is like to feel like a woman? I can fully understand that he doesn't feel like a man. I have been a woman all my life but I would bet that there are plenty of women who feel that being woman is not quite the same as my feeling about being a woman.

Being "not-man" is not the same as being a woman. Being "not woman" is not the same as "being man". It is a hugely difficult issue. I have no idea where we find a fair and just solution. It is not helped by describing biologically born women as Cis-women, as if we are some lesser creature from what we have always believed ourselves to be from the day we were born.If you were born with a penis and testes, but believe you are truly a woman, my heart goes out to you and I wish you well on your search for your true identity.

I think that there is a fundamental problem. Transgender people feel strongly that they are not the person that they are registered or assigned to be – and that must be hugely hard. But, I wonder when a man says I feel like a woman, does he actually have any idea what it is like to feel like a woman? I can fully understand that he doesn't feel like a man. I have been a woman all my life but I would bet that there are plenty of women who feel that being woman is not quite the same as my feeling about being a woman.

Being "not-man" is not the same as being a woman. Being "not woman" is not the same as "being man". It is a hugely difficult issue. I have no idea where we find a fair and just solution. It is not helped by describing biologically born women as Cis-women, as if we are some lesser creature from what we have always believed ourselves to be from the day we were born.If you were born with a penis and testes, but believe you are truly a woman, my heart goes out to you and I wish you well on your search for your true identity.

I know people who have felt they were the wrong sex. One I know tried to take his life twice. I have every sympathy.
But self identifying makes no sense to me. If you've had a sex change then yes, you can change how you identify legally. Otherwise to me it means people could just choose what they want to be?? Very strange.
And communal toilets? No. The world is changing too much for me.

They must not shut down free speech.
I haven’t read the threads on mumsnet so don’t feel qualified to comment on them but it’s so important to talk about this and share our views.
I am offended by being called a cis woman, do you think the Guardian would care?
As a woman I never felt threatened by homosexuality but this does make me feel very uneasy. If someone wants to change their sex then they must go through certain steps to achieve their goal. Which of course they will never achieve.
Biology. Very sad for some. I’m sure the genuine trans women and men would agree with us. They seem to have been hijacked .IMO

I'm not new. Had to reregister because of change of email. So changed user name.

You are right to be uneasy Pamela. There is a mine of info on Mumsnet FWR threads.

If self ID goes through it means that transwomen can legally change their sex (which is biologically impossible) and that will negate the sex based protections of the Equality Act 2010.

Beyond the obvious controversies about changing rooms, toilets etc. there are many far reaching problems. Here's just one for example. Crimes committed by transwomen - who offend at the same rate as natal men - will be recorded as being done by women.

In sport transwomen claim that their testosterone is low and therefore they have lost their advantage over women are rubbish. They still have all the advantages of height, weight, reach, lung oxygen volume, bone strength etc. that developed through puberty.

The 4,000% increase in girls applying to become boys is frightening and desperately needs research to understand why this is happening. Puberty blockers, male hormones mean they face infertility. Too bad if they change their minds....

It is so crazy you even have a male CEO of a FTSE company (Philip Bunce, who IDs as a woman some days winning an award as a woman). You have transwomen, undergoing no surgery or medical treatment (and that's at least 80% of transwomen) on all women short lists and winning places on schemes reserved for women.

I could go on. But anyone who wants a bigger picture go to Mumsnet FWR - pretty much the only place where you can debate, within limits, this issue. So much debate has been shut down by trans activists who threaten, insult and intimidate women (including bomb threats) who want to meet to discuss it - and threaten any venue that offers a meeting room. Leeds Council no less, was recently cowed into refusing a women's meeting. MPs freely admit they are scared to comment. How can that be? What the hell is going on?

The GRA consultation period is now closed. We can only keep debating and raising awareness.

Surely when people really understand that this means that there will be more Karen Whites in the future they will see how serious this is. (Karen White is a transwoman, who as a man, was a rapist. Got himself transferred to a women's prison by claiming he was trans, where he then proceeded to sexually assault four women). If that doesn't peak trans more of the population nothing will.

Purplepatch I am shocked to read this. Indeed what the hell is going on?! It seems the world has indeed gone mad.

Cis woman - what a load of balls! - or not, as the case might be.