Moaning Leavers, an explanation

By the way, the Drivers Hours Regulations are VERY STRICTLY ENFORCED throughout Europe, before anyone states that "some countries do not" and Britain is the only country that does.

Grandad1943
Maybe you should re-read my post.

Basically your last post confirms that it was the EU that adopted UK H&S legislation, basically they just called it EU legislation. However the UK still exceeds most of the EU in its level of application and innovation which may of course render its products more expensive but garners respect worldwide.

Why would we need to be dependant on EU legislation when it is actually UK legislation rebranded?

Didnt you know that there are quite a number of UK H&S Consultants who travel worldwide delivering training an implementing H&S policy, procedures and practice globally. Maybe you have missed a trick

The gig economy and zero hours contracts not forced on the U.K. by the EU, just an an example of how the U.K. actually have freedom to run their own affairs whilst still being in the EU. Only 5% of our laws are EU regulations, we are perfectly capable of making a mess of quite a few things on our own. Leavers seem to have the impression that the EU runs everything in the U.K. when, guess what , it doesn’t.

Surely if our H and S legislation is so marvellous we should be proud to share it with others shouldn’t we? Not resent the fact that others have adopted it. We can all learn from each other not selfishly say “that’s mine, I’m not sharing anything with you”.

crystaltips
Re contracts of rmployment. Your earlier post insinuated that EU legislation was protecting workers rights. My response demonstrated it does not.
Re H&S legislation, you say why shouldnt we be proud to share it.
My response was..we are, and globally. And whilst the UK generally applies this legislation in excess of EU directives. Many in the EU fails to apply to the same standard resulting in an uneven trading field.
Your insinuation about sharing and being fair should ideally be directed at our EU trading partners.

Joelsnan, I do not believe that the European Union has any "third world type States that need the expertise of British industrial safety consultants.

I believe you may be confusing a situation where multinational companies hold seminars of their professionals such as in industrial safety to discuss and implement "best practice", in regards to safety procedures across all sites in the European Union or even worldwide.

Those seminars I have attended but at such meetings I have never encountered anyone from Britain lecturing independently to Commercial organisations within the EU even when they hold the highest IOSH fellowship accreditation.

Commercial organisations have their own safety management representatives or contract independent safety consultants for their own specific organisational purposes.

Joelsnan, in regards to Britain implementing higher standards in regards to industrial safety than other leading European Union countries, please provide incidents and evidence of that happening and where.

Otherwise, I believe it is just further right-wing Media agenda against the European Union.

Grandad1943
Read gillbob posts a little further us as evidence.

I think there is a lot of misrepresentation about the gig economy. My understanding is that most of those on zero hours contracts do so because they are students or others who don't wish to be tied to permanent hours. This being so it means that they probably don't continue in this type of employment for very long so probably wouldn't qualify for pensions unless the law has changed since I was working. At that time an employer didn't need to enroll a new employee into its pensions scheme for 2 years. I'm not sure about the new rules but if employers have to enroll people as soon as they start work then such people won't loose out. Of course it could be that they are not working enough to pay NI and will miss out on the state pension but that would apply to all people working just a few hours whether in the gig economy or otherwise.

We are currently working on a machine designed and built in France . It produced a speciality food product . It would NEVER pass EU standards . I could list the failures. Strangely though it is CE marked . We are not H&S experts but we get passed work from a company who are . Almost always machines built in mainland Europe that fall short of EU standards .

Joelsnan, found two gillybob posts on this thread but cannot see they add any evidence to the charge that Britain has higher standards in industrial safety than other leading European Union country.

If there is a further Gillybob posts in this thread that I have not found which does present that evidence please give day and time posted

We also work closely with a German company ( twice the size of us) who cannot believe how much we pay in overheads, insurances etc. They say that they get masses of help from their government. I can honestly say we get zilch ! Not a bloomin’ thing . No wonder UK small firms find it impossible to compete . It isn’t an even playing field .

Gillybob, your post coincided at the same time as my own. However, I cannot agree that European standards in safety fall short of British standards in any overall way

Grandad1943
Did i say that UK consultants were visiting 3rd world EU countries?
I think if you re-read you will find I did not, I said Worldwide. You may need to broaden your perspective past the EU.
I think you may not be unaware of this band of international travelling professionals. Incidentally, one of my nephews is lecturing in H&S in a college in the UAE, the syllabus being based upon UK principals.
Having at one time been an NVQ assessor for those taking the H&S part of their apprenticeships etc. I do have a minute insight into the subject.

Oh Grabdad I can assure you that in many cases they absolutely do ! We work on Machines that should have never left a factory never mind been installed for use . The difference being that we ( in the UK) tend to ( quite rightly) play be the rules when many other EU countries sadly do not .

Grabdad ? sorry meant Grandad

The more facts?! figures & opinions I read, the more I am convinced that it was in the main an emotional vote.
Even now neither side can accurately predict how it will all pan out. Future Historians will have a field day when analysing this particular period of our Country’s history.

Especially when analysing all the misplaced hysteria around leaving the EU, as if we had lived in a vacuum before entering it.

And all the misplaced hysteria surrounding how we are “ ruled” by the EU.

gillybob, are you stating that the majority or even a large minority of machines, cars, trucks etc produced in EU member states are inferior to comparative products produced in the UK?

Respectfully if you are stating the above I find that ridiculous.

Grandad1943
One has to wonder how clearly the facts have to be stated

crystaltips
It is not a case for 'tit for tat'

I did not at any time say a general majority or even a large minority Grandad I simply said it something WE see regularly (as in our company) I also never mentioned cars or trucks as I know nothing about either .

The Electoral Commission has dismissed allegations made by Tory MP Priti Patel about the spending of pro-EU groups during the 2016 Brexit referendum. The watchdog said there was no evidence that laws on campaign spending had been breached.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-remain-campaign-spending-priti-patel-electoral-commission-tory-mp-a8474961.html

The disgraced ex-minister Pritti Patel seems to be a classic example of a "moaning leaver" who, even when the lies and cheating by the leave campaign has been proven beyond doubt thinks she can get away with making false allegations about the Remain campaign.

I think we all now realise that the Remain campaign was shambolic and ineffective, but at least it was based on truth.

Sensible MPs know that leaving without a deal would be utterly irresponsible – there is no majority in the Commons for such a foolish approach. But there is a risk that in a tense and difficult situation the easy way out will be to vote through whatever fudged version of the Chequers agreement May gets.

Parliament must do better than that. The process of Brexit has been nothing but delay and fudge, made worse by the absence of strategy and little transparency. This has gone on too long. The British people are entitled to know what their future will be after March 29 2019. They are also entitled to decide whether or not the agreement that the government gets from the EU is better or worse than our current membership. We should take heed of the dangers of no deal but not be bullied into a bad deal.

infacts.org/beware-brexiters-no-deal-scaremongering/