1st class,Rights,Equalit y,& Discrimination?

No I’m not confusing it,I am saying that with the best will in the world all things cannot be equal.
We may strive to make life better for everyone, but equal it is not.

Bridgeit I think you're confusing the ability to pay for better seats, etc with the right to be treated on an equal footing or be paid the same wage as an equivalent person.

There's nothing wrong with paying if you can but if youare doing the same job and a colleague is paid more then that's inequality.

Well we'll never have equality -it boils down PARTLY to birth (if you send your son to Eton, he's going to do better than if he'd attended local comp). But also to LUCK (that working class girl who just happened to marry into money. Or had the looks to be a top model; brains to get a career.) And EFFORT (are you going to push yourself through uni or settle for an easy job?) And EVENTS (that guy was doing well till his wife divorced him and took all the property.) People whinge about private education etc but no different to fact one person gets to wear designer clothes & one's in charity shop stuff.) I think we have a fair chance to get on in UK: we live on council estate, my eldest was at low-ranking secondary mod but pushed himself & age 29 is buying flat in London. It's less about poverty than family encouragement - libraries, museums all free. But I think we also have to factor in that of those in low calibre, low paid jobs, a fair proportion (not all) WILL be less intelligent folk; and their genes and attitudes will necessarily be passed on to their kids. And that can't be changed by government handouts as it's a fact of life.

True equality is everyone being equal at the start. in every way. what people do after is up to them. But unless everyone thought the same ( which would make for a very stranger world ) we would end up unequal. with the same problems we have now.

As mum to 2 adopted daughters I'm with you sodapop.
I 'd also question diana 's very simplistic view. One can't draw a general conclusion from one example.

We could start a nature v nurture debate Diana I'm not sure I agree with your views on heredity.

How true, Sparkly, how true!

I had an difficult beginning BUT two grandmothers who had every faith in me and loved me. I have worked throughout my life and on checking my pension situation, will have 47 years of continuous contributions when I retire in 3 years.

One of my lovely grandmothers worked from age 12 to age 66, but because she only paid a married woman’s NI contributions, had a minimal pension.

I always try and tell friends, make sure your pension is covered. Equality is living well beyond 66.

All we can do is to instill good values and good judgement into our daughters and grand-daughters and hope for the best.

The good fortune of us Grans depended on our parents and then who we marry so we have two chances to prosper I don't suppose many of us put career first.
The genes you inherit determine who you are I inherited mums genes, quiet, studious and cautious. Wasnt really interested in boys until I was 16 and then very choosy who to date, eventually married an apprentice plumber, a smart one who quickly took on all building work and prospered
My sister inherited dads genes, risk taking, rebellious not interested in school, she spent all her breaks hanging out with the bad boys, eventually married one, give her two choices and she would always make the wrong choice.
Particularly for girls, the decisions you make in your teens shape your whole life

Annana
I can't opine on high salaried execs but, if the rest of society weren't willing to fork out huge amounts of money to watch 22 men playing with a ball, then said footballers wouldn't be living the life they live.
Sky sports, gate money, club membership, kits and, because the working class chose it as their Saturday entertainment, the advertisers saw a way to make even more money, thus lining the pockets of agents, managers, bookies and anyone and everyone connected with the game.
Who ultimately started the ball rolling and keeps it going? Joe public. If he stopped watching and buying the money paid to footballers would dry up.

Yes you are right sarahellenwhitney didn't engage brain properly did I.

I have always been of the opinion that if you earn your money honestly it's no business of anybody else how you spend it.

I was born into extremely impoverished and difficult circumstances and yet today I would probably be placed in this somewhat ambiguous state of 'comfortable'. No handouts or inheritances just the good fortune to have a good state education and fortunate with my health. My husband and I both worked constantly (not me when the children were around) and used our cash both fastidiously and for fun. I suppose I'm living proof that a lowly birth rite doesn't necessarily mean that it will continue for ever.

I find that despite the minimum wage many of us still struggle to afford a basic lifestyle. However, without being bitter , what really gripes me are the fantastically high earnings paid by certain jobs as well as to footballers etc

Sodapop.
Aren't opportunities available to all.? Whether one has the money, the intelligence , or in whatever shape or form it takes, is another matter.

Equality does not exist and never can. We dont start out equal. Human beings are born with different levels of intelligence and health potential. (yes we can look after our bodies but it doesnt guarantee good health). Lemongrove is right. We can legislate regarding welfare benefits, equal treatment at work and try to create more opportunity in education but we can never create equal opportunities. Life is often unfair. And there are always going to be different levels of income and what people have. Its just a fact. Doesn't necessarily mean you can't be happy.

I suppose we could become communists then we would all be equal..... and all have nothing.

Rosina
Your description of how different people would use the same amout of money, is highlighted in the bible...swap money for seeds.
We have different strengths/ weaknesses/mindsets/disabilities etc etc..
Equality only exists if it is forced upon us.

Equality can never be achieved and, in my opinion, neither should it be. The idea of the status of it just encourages those of a lazy disposition to ride for free on the coattails of others. If everyone was equal at 9 o'clock in the morning, by midday there would already be a wide disparity in the way people behave. It's human nature.

Some people chose to take advantage of the education and chances they receive in life, others do not and that happens within the same school, housing area etc.. Some people seem to make wrong choices all the time and they shouldn't keep being bailed out otherwise they will keep on making them at the expense of others who choose to do the right thing I'm not saying people should be exploited but not everyone is cut out to be the boss.

PECS
Are you suggesting that by looking after oneself that (inadvertently?) one is trampling on/crushing someone elses opportunities?

Its impossible to have equality in the sense of everyone being the same unless human beings are eventually cloned and raised by robots. The best we can do is try to ensure the essential things like healthcare and schooling are offered to everyone, what individuals make of that will largely depend on them. My guess is if everyone was exactly the same the human race would cease to exist because there would be no motivation. Trying to improve your lot in life is a pretty basic driving force. The success of Scandinavian societies shows that trying to improve your own lot in life can also be channelled into trying to improve the lot of your whole society, which is probably the best we can do.

True total equality is impossible. We are all born differently from birth. We are born with different qualities that lead us in different directions. And I think the fact that now i have choices between best seats/1st class etc. is a acknowledgement of the fact that we have worked hard and made sacrifices when we were young. But it would be wonderful if everyone had equal opportunities in life at an early age so that they could fulfil their true potential. For total equality think we would need to be clones.

Communism is supposed to be equal, but even that’s shown that the elite are still prosperous.

Equality is opportunity in my reasoning. After that it is up to the individual. I have friends who saved hard and managed money wonderfully and bought their own, really lovely home eventually. Others I know have travelled, chosen to work for a year and then have six months off, and consequently don't have a super house and savings. I don't think the purchase of extra good tickets or first class flights signifies much at all except how you choose to spend.

The story about the cooking is alarming, widgeon because if you can read you can cook. In fact if you can watch TV you can learn to cook and who doesn't have, or have access to, a TV?

I read an article years ago in which an economist said that if you paid everyone the same amount each month, at the end of a year there would be people with savings, others who had managed well but had nothing 'put by', and some who would be up to their necks in debt.