Changes in our Society

Kim19 how much i agree with you.
My GCs aged 13 and 9 come to my house every day after school and have to do homework/eat tea/watch TV etc.
They long for their Daddy to collect them after 6.0pm.
They are very happy here with Grandad and me but they too yearn for their own home surroundings and comforts.

4allweknow single mother statistics include divorced women, I was with my DD's F for over 10 years, married for 15 months of those. He walked out on us when DD was 4 years old. Not all single Mothers are feckless.

Being able to have a career has been a way forward for many women, having the choice to stay at home or return to work after having babies. Freedom for women in many ways which our Mothers/Grandmothers didn't have. Yes that even includes having babies out of wedlock, I was an unmarried mother but at that time in a stable relationship, we married & then he left us. I returned to education, got a good job & married again, we were together for 23 years, married for 21 happy years, sadly I was widowed at 57.

Life has changed very much, my step-daughter has been married for 26 years, her brother is with his long term girlfriend, engaged for for 10+ years, both have 2 children

Not all single Mothers are feckless.
I do hope you don't think I was meaning that Legs55 - it is so often the woman who is left to struggle on her own to bring up children.
Before I get criticised for saying that, I think the statistics would bear that out although I do know some men who have been deserted and left with the children.

GS05. Thank you. Y'know, many years ago I used to be the gap filler childminder for one of my son's pals. We could be in the middle of a game or some other exciting stuff and that little lad would fly out the door the minute the hand of the clock hit five on the hour. I knew where his heart lay and I never once had to remind him.

If people want to split up from a partner they are unhappy with, for whatever reason, that is up to them but I don't see why they or the government should then expect the taxpayer to foot the bill for their subsequent lifestyle.
Again, if you have unprotected sex without being in a stable relationship and get pregnant the same applies. Why should you expect to be funded by others who go to work so that you can have your own house to bring up hildren when the problem is of your own making.

I was an unmarried mother in the l960's. I was sent away to a mother and baby home in London so that no one would know I was pregnant. I can remember arriving there and meeting the pregnant daughter of our local vicar who had been sent there for the same reason.

After our babies were born we looked after them for 6 weeks and then they nearly all went for adoption. Some of the girls' parents didn't even know their daughters were pregnant. There was a complete mix of girls from all social backgrounds.

My parents stood by me and allowed me to keep my daughter but, of the group I was with, I was the only one this happened to.

It was all terribly sad and I'm glad things have changed in that regard.

As for marriages breaking up more easily I think that a lot of the reason is so many more women have economic independence. Another change for the better.

To add to Mabons post, many gramdmothers ormarried relatives pretended the baby was their own. Some adults grew up believing their Gran/aunt was their mother, only to discover the truth late in their own lives

This happened to guitarist Eric Clapton and he went completely off the rails when he found out the truth as a teenager.

Again, if you have unprotected sex without being in a stable relationship and get pregnant the same applies. Why should you expect to be funded by others who go to work so that you can have your own house to bring up hildren when the problem is of your own making.

quizqueen How would you prove that someone had had unprotected sex in order to refuse them benefits? Many women get pregnant when their contraception fails, including married women. Look at Cherie Blair.

I think it's good that girls are not now 'thrown out of the family home' if they became pregnant, but I also think the whole 'acceptance' thing has gone too far. There is so much information about birth control that I find it hard to believe that girls 'fall pregnant' accidentally.

Try before you buy and I don't mean food and drink samples available in your local supermarket but marriage.
Living together, possibly having children, then getting wed with kids as your attendants and honey moon in some exotic location and in some cases taking your children with you. Never knew of this when I wed 50 years ago.

Talking to young people it seems Condoms are not ‘liked’ so they are prepared to take a chance ,also casual sex seems to be much more prevalent.

Single parents make up 25% of all parents. Only 2% are teenagers. 10% are men. Remember the classification includes divorced parents.

Agree things have improved with women having more access for further education and better jobs, not having to resign on marriage, better health care for all.

The downside is that we're all living longer so many women (more so than men) are the sandwich generation - looking after elderly parents as well as their own DC and trying to hold down jobs. Certainly in large parts of the south and most cities everywhere, one salary doesn't hack it if you want your own home, however small, and however much you cut out luxuries.

The privilege of being a SAHM was IMHO a 20C thing. The close-knit nature of one-employment towns (mining, mills etc) was wonderful, but until the mid-19C children and women were still working down the mines and into the 20C in the mills and factories. Literacy rates were minimal even though there was a thirst for it. Many women worked to put something on the table but in traditionally low paid jobs. Latch-key kids were frequent.

My DGM brought up her 5 DC and did nothing but cook, clean - and look after various elderly relatives. I know she could have done more but I think she was embittered, especially when my DM worked and enjoyed it. My DMiL came from a close knit community but it was deemed above her station to go to grammar school - so despite being brighter than her husband she was stuck in an abusive relationship because she couldn't afford to leave.

grannysue05 You've been reading too many Daily Mails! There are more divorced parents as single parents than single mothers. And would you really wish to go back to the days when young women had to give their babies up with psychological damage going down generations? or worse still (in Ireland) babies neglected to death?

Alchemilla ...my question was - Did the opinions of society in the 50's and 60's act as a deterrant to casual or unprotected sex?
As society now says anything goes ....... is that producing an atmosphere of being able to totally please/indulge yourself with little regard to consequences?

not smug at all riverwalk realistic.I have worked in the wedding industry for over 4 decades and in recent times it would surprise you how many couple go through with the wedding because it was organised but dont stay together long after the "big day"
It didn't happen in the past or not nearly as often ,sure there was the odd one or two a year who we heard had burned their dress and album within weeks ,or the Bride and groom who went their seperate ways after the reception.

It is much more common now though and it doesn't shock or even surprise us when we hear these stories .I have no problem with people divorcing but to be honest I think a lot of folk want "the wedding" and after the excitement of it they think life is boring and they dont settle to "normal" married life.
It also surprises me how quickly some move on to another marriage,we did 5 thats FIVE weddings for one young man before he was 35 !!I hear he's on number 8 now.Whatever happened to working through your issues?

Did the opinions of society in the 50's and 60's act as a deterrant to casual or unprotected sex?
Yes, I think they did grannysue and I wonder why so many do have unprotected sex these days when there is a reported alarming increase in STIs?

Annie is the only one who has mentioned men! Men also get trapped in unhappy marriages and get abused by controlling wives. Many on here have spoken about their DiL cutting them out of their lives and alienating the DS. It takes 2 to make a relationship and probably 2 to break one.

Women are no longer the property of their husbands for income tax - that's a big change.

There were no nurseries of other child care where I lived when mine were young so I had no choice but to stay at home and look after them. I was quite happy to do that and feel sorry for those who are pressured to go back to work. I never felt indebted to DH because he was earning and I was not. He earned the money and I managed it, still do but it has always been our money and never his.

We had playgroups which was a great way to make friends as we had a rota for helping out. I also ran the school library and helped in the classroom as and when they needed me. I suppose these days I would have to have police checks to do the same.

I don't think people have the time to help out neighbours in times of need which we all used to.

Are there still babysitting circles? Our were great and again a way of getting to know others when moving to a new area.

Equal pay has made a huge difference as has maternity rights and pay. I took over a job a man had previously done and made a real mess of and was paid two thirds of what he had been paid. I had to take holiday to go for maternity appointments.

Not so sure that all the home births and just a few hours in hospital when giving birth are such a great idea. I think many would appreciate a few more days in hospital especially with the first. Would give time to gain confidence in looking after the baby.

Is the housing shortage partly down to people not staying in their marriages? I just wonder if some might try harder to work things through rather than giving up quite so quickly.

A big change is that clothing and furniture are a lot cheaper than they were.

The Internet, information on demand.

I'll stop now.

Interesting topic....mmmm.... I do get fed up with people moaning about their lot these days! Not because my youth was bad, it wasn't, but I am thinking back to before then (my parents' childhoods). I can't get started on people not being able to feed their children now because I get shot down but doing family trees with my mother, the amount of babies in our family even who died of starvation/malnutrition before their first birthdays...... It was just the way......THAT was poverty.

Also no stigma to babies out of wedlock (good) but by same token a huge amount of young people don't actually think before 'trying' for a baby! They seem to think it is like getting a puppy and someone else will look after it (Grandma ) (this is not specifically people I know but documentaries and articles I might pick up on) Also I do know of incidences, small town I lived in several years where youngsters actively chose to have babies because they could get council houses at 18 but it did happen. Quite a few of my daughters' peers had babies 16 and under. No amount of sex education would stop them t.b.h. When I asked 'why' the answer was 'why not'? Nothing to do with love or anything just like it seemed a good idea at the time.

What am I wittering on about? Oh yes, I think life is much better nowadays whichever way you look at it. But then I know lots of you disagree with me on that one. I feel lucky to live in this Society. Fire away heh heh

Men are men and never change, never will because their basic interest is sex, when he offers to buy you a drink he is not the slightest interested in your intellect, he wants to get you into bed.
Women have changed a great deal since my day in the mid to late 60s, nice girls did not give in easily because once you got a "reputation" the good men were not seriously interested. Most of my friends had good lasting marriages sadly several became widowed only one divorced, they got involved with a "swapping" couple and it didn't last long after that.

Today the problem for bright women is that your first serious boyfriend is likely to be at University, maybe you have several, but then most go off in different directions to careers, so start again, then one of you gets promoted you separate, start again. So you are late 20s earning good wages, finding a man that matches your expectations is getting harder. At that age men are getting set in their ways its easy to get a date and unwilling to commit to one woman.

Not so academic girls have an easier time if they choose well, there are much fewer obstacles, career is not as important, men are less set in their ways. However partying your way through every weekend until your mid 20s is not the way to find a partner.

So the world has moved on nothing on this forum is going to change that, women are undoubtedly better off financially. But I doubt that they are happier or more contented than my day.

Men are men and never change, never will because their basic interest is sex. mmmm not so sure about this.

Hi Diana54 and oldbatty, I don't think that all men have sex as a basic interest and no interest in a woman's intellect or other qualities. I agree with oldbatty on this but it is a strong drive for a lot of them, I suppose. How would the human population have started all those years ago if the drive wasn't strong?

Women are more economically independent nowadays and I think that is a positive thing for them.

OK maybe not all, some are gay but then they are not going to offer a drink or to dance with you. Intellect and Personality is what keeps a man interested but it is not the initial attraction.

gosh we are straying into some strange territory now.....my son is gay.

I think things have certaintly improved for women but at a cost

Diana54 I have 4 sons - I am not sure where you get your information on men, but think you may need to look at other sources.

Have daughter also, and sorry your assumption that men just want sex is so outdated.

The big change is, whatever your gender you now have the opportunity to do as you please. Whether it is to get married, live with partner, have children or not. You have the option, not the church or you status dictating how you live. This surely is a good thing.

Humans expressing their free thought/ways will always upset someone with different opinions.

My opinion is live and let live.

History is not my forte, but humanity has constantly evolved, sometimes for the good, but not always.