Is Jeremy Corbyn holding the Labour back?

& as a graduate zero hours sick cover got me a foot in in a sector which is otherwise reserved for rich kids who can do unpaid internships!

I agree that they shouldn't replace permanent contracts, and when they do that's bad. But zero hours are not fundamentally bad. When used right they facilitate social mobility & make it easier for women to return to their careers after children.

I work with an older disabled lady who has a zero hours contract. It allows her to work as much or as little as she can manage. And if she needs a break from work she can take one.

When they are used properly they are great.

Scapegoating them will do harm. They need to be managed better but not totally vilified

I would absolutely love to know how zero hours contracts benefit carers. I have direct experience of this and it is an awful system. The carers are in competition with each other for the hours. So it is in their best interests to keep the office staff sweet. They do this by accepting more challenging work, even though they aren't trained and cutting corners. I can give specific examples.

You also can get credit on 0hrs contracts. Not quite as much as when on a permanent contract but you can if you have a solid history of your income from 0hrs like I did throughout my children's smaller years.

Its pretty much the same process/ conditions as applying for credit when self employed

If people choose zero hours contract to fit with their lifestyle that's a choice but having no option but to work this way without the usual statutary benefits that contracted workers would get, ie sick and holiday pay, seems discriminatory and quite unfair. Who would like to choose between having enough money for food and rent, or going to work when unfit through illness for example?

oldbatty I meant people who are carers for family members and need a lot of flexibility re time off to accompany to appointments etc.

& agency health care staff are nowadays often technically self employed not employed on zero hours contracts

You get holiday pay on 0hrs (it is added to your hourly rate and its up to you whether or not you save it up for your holidays) & statutory sick pay and maternity pay depending on how many hours they do.

Are you sure you are not mistaking agency staff who are technically self employed (not all agency staff actually realise they are!)

Ive had half a dozen 0hr jobs as well as agency jobs.

I have taken maternity leave whilst on 0hrs. If you do over a certain amount of hours on 0hrs they are obliged to give you statutory maternity pay. If you do under the threshold for that but have been working on 0hrs you get maternity allowance.

I got statutory pay. It is not at the discretion of the 0hrs employer it is an entitlement.

I don't think zero hours is a good thing. The employee is vulnerable and easily manipulated.

Mawbroon, in regard to your post today @ 10:29am (27/09/28) making reference to my views on zero hours contracts. I believe that if you check back through my posts on this forum, you will find that I have never wholly condemned these contracts, but have advocated restrictions on the "sole employer" terms so often inserted into zero or minimal hour contracts.

Casual working as I have often stated can be very suited to many people. Indeed, in the entertainments industry, many companies involved could scarcely operate without zero hours contracts (casual working).

The Labour party conference is an excellent example of the above. The management of the conference centre had thirteen thousand delegates on site for four days; then for the remainder of this week, they may have no booking for the centre whatsoever. It was probable that for the Labour conference several hundred staff would be required, then when it's over no one is needed. Therefore, the only way the above can be to catered for is with staff on zero hour contracts.

However, zero hour contracts are now widely used in distribution centres especially where they are supplying just in time delivery services (JIT). These centres always have a core number of staff directly employed by the centre management. In that, the "call over" from the retail outlets or other distribution recipients can vary widely from day to day. Therefore, zero hour contract employees are widely used but as the distribution centre management may need these employees at any time a clause is inserted into the contract stating they must not work for any other employer while holding that contract.

Therefore, an employee is required to sit with their phone for many hours, and no work become available, but they are not able to use those available hours to work for anyone else. That is what I find totally unacceptable, for should that situation continue for any length of time, it is the taxpayers that have to supplement those peoples income by way of benefits. The above is the unacceptable face of modern employment.

Then we have the gig economy which is something completely different in employment terms and even worse.

I believe statutory sick and maternity pay is only paid to those who work for one employer and earn about £113 per week. In practice some are working for several employers and are not therefore eligible. Lots of loopholes for employers to avoid paying fairly, but of course not all do take advantage. I suppose it boils down to consumers paying a fair price for goods and services and not expecting everything to be so competitively cheap.

So easy to condemn , many would choose to pay less regardless of staff working hours or pay,

I will not condemn Amazon , it would make me a hypocrite, i have no choice but to buy from there so will not take the high moral ground .

My youngest grandchild is a university student, she worked through the summer , zero hours contract, it suited her. Should I have said don’t work for that company no matter that it suits you.

"My God, the above "rant""

Hilarious! Oh Grandad, you do make me smile! (As does Old Meg.)

I appreciate your sense of humour bypass but if I wanted to 'rant' about Labour (mind you, what's the point - others all over the internet are doing it regarding the two party set up that is present day Labour) ) you'd know the difference.

A cheeky dig at what it is to be a Labour voter/comrade these days is very different from a rant.

Perhaps you are peeved that no one from HQ sent you a copy of Das Kapital?

Socialism joke:

What's the common point between socialism and capitalism?

The £60 Che Guevara shirt worn by the young revolutionary - at Glastonbury.

Day6 you sat up until beyond 2am in the morning to post that as humour?

A posters choice of time when they retire for the night is not for anyone to question, most ill mannered

Zero hour contracts benefit young mothers, carers, and the semi retired. Corbyn is not so concerned with women though

Exceellent post notanan2

There are many casual zero hours contracts which allow flexibility to those who do not want or cannot make regular commitments. Working hours to suit or 'as and when needed' has benefits for many.

Of course those contracts shouldn't be abused by employers but many jobs in the tertiary sector rely on large numbers of staff being available at certain times and that flexibility is welcomed by many needing an injection of cash when they are available for work short term or if they need the opportunity to opt out for any reason. They are not contract-bound.

Zero hours contracts should not be demonised. Abuse of workers is another matter.

No anniebach, it was as I started. The hard right on the forum were so concerned with the success of the Labour party conference that they just could not sleep and therefore posted senseless rants.

Simple as that.

Day6 you sat up until beyond 2am in the morning

I finally fell asleep at 4.20am Grandad, not that it's any of your business. I am glad of the internet for company in the wee small hours. A pile of ironing was also completed. Chronic insomnia isn't nice, but I have accepted I am a nocturnal type and always have been.

That OK with you?

I condem Amazon and don't buy from them, they use every dodgy tax avoidance trick, pay their sub contract delivery drivers peanuts, unethical. Yet they are one of the richest company's on the globe, they can well afford to pay properly.

Grandad The hard right on the forum were so concerned with the success of the Labour party conference that they just could not sleep

What a nasty comment. You are all heart, aren't you?

Diana54, it's not just Amazon. You would be surprised at the names and numbers of companies in the Road Haulage and distribution industry that use zero-hours sole employer contracts

The problem is that once a significant company begins using such employment terms then other companies are forced to use similar contracts to remain competitive.

So starts what is known as the race to the bottom.

No anniebach, it was as I started. The hard right on the forum were so concerned with the success of the Labour party conference that they just could not sleep and therefore posted senseless rants

What a stupid remark. Someone is talking out of their a**e! .

What was it you started grandad1943? Who the hell do you think you are? There are posters here who have broken sleep, some are carers, some are grieving, some suffer from insomnia . Hell bells you think people are so bloody obsessed with your hero they can’t sleep?

You were offensive, ill mannered and as usual so far up your own rear end you can’t think of anyone except you and your long, boring, epistles . Are you retired so bored ?

Good grief, checking the time a post is typed, that is so sad

Men don’t have so much to do Annie and they often get bored when retired.
Day6 I enjoyed your ‘cheeky dig’ at the conference, in fact it was all probably true.