AIBU to think that driving at 97 is a tad unreasonable?

Totally agree with that bit MOnica there should be annual tests over the age of 75 We all know we feel 25 we all know we are sure we can still tackle jobs we have always done I know I can still go up a ladder but maybe I shouldn’t
I think it’s a very positive confident person that knows their limits even if they still feel capable My best friend is 82 and as fit as a flee apart from ‘normal’ age aches and pains but at 75 she said I m selling the car and won’t drive any longer as I don’t feel I am as confident in my abilities as I used to be She is one wise lady in contrast her friend who has such poor health she could die any minute ( heart, kidney, etc etc) is still driving She is a competent driver but she could keel over with a heart attack any moment and could kill people
It’s nothing to do with ageism is just common sense
There are people with dementia driving cars they only get stopped if someone reports them doctors do not let the authorities know automatically That should happen

My brother was much younger when he did the same thing and killed himself.

I saw a clip of the prince at his GD's wedding last year and he looked very fit. I don't think we can compare the royals with the rest of us as, presumably, they get frequent health checks and far better treatment. I don't know if he is fit to drive or not, I would leave that to the experts.

DH and I were pondering on what will happen now. Perhaps the tabloids are competing to pay for the story of the other driver? How will their insurance react? Will she lose her no claims bonus? I doubt she will be able to remain anonymous.

Driving when you are not medically fit to drive is a bad idea at any age and the accident rate for anyone driving when unfit, particularly on drink or drugs is probably much the same regardless of age.

I do think there should be mandatory tests for older drivers to check if they are fit to drive, but if an older person is fit,in their right mind, and can see to standard, I can see no reason why they should not continue to rive until they are over 100. I certainly do not see why the fit elderly should be penalised because a small group of older people continue driving when they are no longer fit to do so.

I think there is too much negativity on this thread, instead of looking for how the problem of unfit older drivers can be dealt with, the tendency to just assume if you are old you are a menace on the roads and for that there is no evidence at all.

I am most surprised Prince Philip wasn't taken to hospital.A similar accident happened to an elderly neighbour in his nineties, except that he was on the main road and was pushed into a wall by a car shooting out at the crossroads. He was taken to hospital, attempted to discharge himself but the doctor prevailed and it was discovered he had broken his neck. Unfortunately he died days later.
As he was an elderly driver he had a dash-cam (?) fitted, which proved he was not at fault and was driving perfectly; the accident was the fault of the younger driver who had shot the crossroads. I would imagine the royal car would have all sorts of monitoring devices fitted.

As MawBroon said upthread, it depends on how the statistics are presented. Perhaps, somewhere in the BBC archives, Tim Harford has examined this issue.

I found this:

www.homecare.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1590559/Police-warn-elderly-motorists-amidst-rise-in-accidents-involving-drivers-aged-over-70

Between 2014-2016, drivers aged 70 or older were involved in over 12 per cent of road incidents in the county (of Essex) where somebody was killed or seriously injured even though they had only clocked up seven per cent of the total number of miles driven.

“Reported statistics indicate that the risk of being involved in an accident increases after the age of 70, and up to that age drivers are no more likely to cause a crash than to be the victim of another road user's mistake. However, drivers over 70 and especially over 80 years, drivers are more likely to be at fault when they crash."

“Underlying health conditions, and some types of medication taken to treat those problems, are a more common factor in accidents involving older drivers. Indeed, a proportion of older driver fatalities occur when a driver dies of natural causes while driving, and their vehicle immediately crashes."

Pertinent to the DoE's accident:

“*Older drivers are commonly involved in collisions at junctions, often because they mis-judge the speed/distance of other vehicles or fail to see a hazard.*"

In addition, statistics won't be able to account for how many older people are renewing their licence every three years (just in case) but rarely drive. I can only assume that how much mileage is being done is taken from insurance companies who ask us each year to estimate our mileage. What we say and what we do may differ greatly.

My MiL kept her licence until she was 90 and diagnosed with dementia but hadn't driven in 30 years. She kept a small "runaround" in the garage (just in case) which other family members would occasionally use - most often her SiL who would take it too enthusiasts' rallies it was that old. That's possibly an extreme case but she would have been there in the stats with no recorded accidents and assumed to be a safe driver.

We had the Devils own job to get DH’s sister to accept that she was not allowed to drive anymore when she was diagnosed with dementia. Fortunately she had mislaid both sets of car keys and no-one could find them, so the matter was academic, but it was the cause of much angst.
To many older people, their car is their last link with independence and when you take that away from them it is all down hill. A 93 year old neighbour of my DD’s was struck down with an illness that affected her spine late last year and when she was finally allowed to return home, she could barely manage her stairs and was told she shouldn’t even think about driving. She had no family, but friends and neighbours were only too willing to take her out if asked. But the asking was the problem, and one day she took her car out to go shopping and turned it over on a quiet road less than quarter of a mile from where she lived. She couldn’t remember how it happened and all she suffered was a broken nose. No other vehicle was involved. She had been driving all her adult life and had never had an accident. The car was a write off, which was a blessing really.

One of the hardest parts of our journey down the Dementia road has been forcing DH to stop driving. He had been driving, accident free, for 60 years, whereas I learned in my 30s and really hate driving, find it very scary. For years I had refused to drive if DH was in the car because he unnerved me with his constant criticisms. Now I have to do all the driving, have to take the key with me if I leave him in the car for a minute in case he decides to re-park the car to his satisfaction.

I wish we had a private estate where DH could zoom about with no risk to anyone but himself and a chauffeur at our disposal so that I didn't have to drive at all.

Accident stats don't take into account the mileage. Older drivers tend to do just their familiar local trips. Accidents per mile might reveal a very different pattern (but harder to measure).
I believe it is the driver's responsibility to inform the DVLA of health or eyesight problems, not the doctor (or the optician?)
My neighbour was told after a heart attack, not to drive. Has taken no notice whatsoever. I doubt he has ever had an eye test in his life. No reason to suppose that Prince has regular tests. Or that he takes any notice of protection officers advice about driving. Who is going to badger him into it? He's never been a man who likes being told what to do and the Queen is not your average wife. Still working for a start!

I have long thought there should be regular sight and cognitive/reaction tests after a certain age. As previously said, these things do deteriorate in the majority of people as we age and if everyone was tested, just as we are tested to drive in the first place, it would take the pressure off families to try and persuade relatives who they feel are no longer safe to drive. In my experience professionals are very reluctant to even suggest that it might be time. My mother was told by an optometrist, in reply to Mum's question whether she could still drive, 'I don't see why not'. The optometrist was not aware of Mum's failing cognitive abilities and slower reaction times. Thank goodness this accident did not result in more serious injury of anyone involved - imagine how awful for everyone had there been a fatality. We have had two instances locally of elderly drivers going in the wrong direction on a motorway resulting in fatalities. I am glad this was a high profile case in that it will hopefully open the debate nationally.

My dear departed FiL stopped driving when someone followed him home and had a go at him - for driving too slowly. His max would have been 25 mph and that was on a good day!

It’s not so much a drivers age that worries me . I know people whose reactions in general are slow. Some with problems turning their necks , stiff hands and arms , legs that they have trouble getting into the car . How quickly could they react in an emergency ?

I too hope that the other people concerned are well looked after.

All this speculation is waste of time. Wait until the details emerge from the Police/Palace. He's a tough
old nut but this accident, and the Queen, may convince him that now is the time to hang up his driving gloves. An ex protection officer was quoted as saying the D of E was one of the best & safest drivers among the royals.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-46912556

Think this latest development deserves a link all of it's own really! How many roads near you get the Council acting so quickly? I know in my area the answer is not a single one!

I read this morning that he told Police he'd been dazzled by the winter sun as he pulled out onto the main road. That could explain the accident. He's a fit individual and so far as I'm aware, this is the first time he's caused an accident. The road he was pulling out on to is busy with fast flowing traffic.
The injuries don't seem to me to be minor, one woman had a broken arm.
I hope all involved make speedy recoveries. Even minor bumps can leave us feeling achey and shocked for a while. This wasn't a minor bump and I can feel my pollyanna gene nudging me again - what's the point of unpleasant comments about a 97 year old who I'm sure didn't deliberately pull out and cause an accident. Maybe he'll stop driving on public roads. My own father aged 81 reluctantly sold his car after a run in with a bus...... We all breathed a sigh of relief because it means our endless discussions about whether he should be driving could end.

Well said, Monica. Far too many assumptions.

When I saw the photo of the crash I thought it may not have been DoE's fault because he may not have been the one joining the main road. However he was the one joining the main road and he misjudged the speed of the traffic so it was his fault.

Surprised he wasn't hurt after rolling his car but I imagine his car was heavily reinforced anyway, given who he is.

I think it is time he gave up driving. It's not as if he has no-one at his disposal to drive him whenever he wishes and he could drive on their private land only, which is no small backyard.

Felt sorry for the other people who were hurt as the media were very slow to mention them or any injuries they suffered. It was basically DoE had a crash - two cars involved - but he is fine.

I am sure he chose to have the accident deliberately because there was a baby in the car.

The road concerned has a high accident rate with a high number of fatalities. It seems to be a long staright busy road with a lot of drivers exceeding the speed limit. The local council were already planning to reduce the speed limit and put in cameras.

The cause of the accident may have nothing to do with the elderly driver and could have been caused by the other car being driven far too fast.

Lots of people are making far too many assumptions.
Mainly: accident + elderly driver = elderly driver at fault
Why not accident + elderly driver = other drive going too fast, or other reason?

As I said before, too many ageist assumptions.

Newsflash According to the NZ Herald, there was also a baby in the car with the two ladies the prince hit.

With any luck this will stop the stubborn old coot from driving himself.
Apparently he's been told several times not to drive (by which brave soul I wonder?) and vehemently refused.
As a result he's now put at least 4 people at risk.
Thank goodness it wasn't worse. Next time it could be.

He has drivers, he should be forced to use them.

I feel sorry for the people he hit, physical injury is not the only fallout from someone side swiping you. It take a long time to get your confidence back.

I hope the royals buy them a new car and provide princely compensation. Hahaha.

Thank you Jalima

As someone said it takes some force to tip over a big 4x4 like that - it may well be armoured too which would make it even heavier. It does look like the car has run into the passenger side so he must have been turning right into the oncoming vehicles path. It happened to my DIL many years ago as she was coming out of the lane where she worked - she misjudged the speed of the car on the main road. I'm sure there will be an investigation but it could be as simple as that. Thankfully no one was seriously hurt. Prince Phillip has been driving for years but I'm sure if it was felt he was no longer safe he would be stopped. We had to take my dad's car off him when he was in his early 80's as he was developing dementia and was clearly a danger to himself and others. He took it with good grace and we bought them a new tv with the proceeds - not a good move as neither of them could ever work the thing after that

That’s the point I was trying to make -“accidents per number of drivers” not “per head of population “
Statistics can be slippery things, which is one reason I like listening to Tim Harford’s programme “More or Less” on Radio4

Yes but that table may not tell the real story 7,424 over 70 s had an accident maybe there’s only 7,425 over 70s driving ?

What I find unacceptable in the media is the lack of concern for the people in the other car, it was reported that they went to hospital with minor injuries.
I just hope they are not out of pocket, I definitely think Prince Phillip shouldn’t be driving as he has numerous drivers at his disposal unlike the rest of us, maybe it’s time this pig headed man thoughtof others.

sorry, that doesn't seem to have posted very well, I will try to amend it.

Car drivers
Under 17 106
17-19 4,744
20-24 10,688
25-29 11,541
30-34 11,248
35-39 9,453
40-49 16,674
50-59 13,563
60-69 7,876
70 and over 7,424
Age not reported5,670