I,m in turmoil

bev797, you have said it yourself, it's all pie in the sky. Times up.

Welcome to the real world and (at 48!!!) it's finally time for him to grow up. If he hasn't made his millions (or even a few thousands) by age 48 the chances he will do so now are pretty much zilch.

The extended trip to a self deluding Fantasyland funded by other people's money is now over. No more money will be provided by family members. It's extremely unlikely any of you will ever see your money again. What his long suffering wife does is up to her. Perhaps she too will be facing a painful reality check about the man she married.

It's time for him to get a real job instead of sponging off other people. He may well have self deluding beliefs about his own "amazing talents", the reality is that he is going to have to accept a much more humble job that he thinks he's entitled to have. All part of the reality check.

It would seem that the main person who has let everyone down is your son. And that truth is going to be very painful for you all to deal with.

Bev707, I think my post to you was too abrupt and I apologise. You are obviously a very kind and caring mom that wants to do her best, your husband is obviously felt the same. At 48 it really is time for your son to stop sponging, and get a job any job, you need to let him do that. Let him take that responsibility, he won't like it and he might stamp his feet a bit, but he needs to be standing on them now.I have a friend who over indulged her only child, the girl was very pleasant and they both got on together, I never said anything as she never complained, just used to tell me of the latest expenditure but then when the money stopped the relationship changed, but that's another story. It is a big change for you and him and won't be easy at first, but it has to end eventually. I am sure he loves you and your husband very much but he has this unrealistic still on you getting him out of schemes. I feel sorry for his wife, she must love him so much, but it isn't fair on her. Good Luck with the decisions you both need to make now, I hope it works out well. My two children have both been very hardworking and independent and sometimes I used to think to myself I've made them that way and they don't need me, but I know really that's how it should be.

Many years ago I went on a BYOB course run by the local Enterprise Board, with mentors from banks, the law, tax office and leading entrepreneurs.

The most useful thing I learned was that I was not cut out to run my own business.

We were told: 'Forget family for the first 2 years because the business IS your family, your priority. You are in a competitive market and you have to fight, all the time.'
This is quite apart from the complications of taxes, staff contributions, deductions and book-keeping.
You can pay someone but that eats into your profit if you're a starter business.

bev707 Can you honestly say your son is now the kind of person who could utterly dedicate himself to making a go of investor money, when he's spent 20 years proving he cannot?

That's the biggest reason to be tough, much as you love him.
To reinforce, time and again that he's a failure is doing him no favours (and I see from your 2nd post that you agree - but will you be talked round?) He needs to chase success and although I don't know anything about Job Centres but Paddyann said they can assess him for potential work. Maybe in an IT call centre?

apparently someone will invest at the end of August

If they haven't already looked into his track record, I wonder how astute these people are? There's no way I'd invest a penny in something run by a man who has lost thousands - and returned nothing.

Sometimes, investors come after you with a big stick if they don't get returns, he's lucky it hasn't happened already.

It's all been said but I just want to add that he does need to repay his uncle. Had he thought of him?

I have a small query here: If the tables were turned and it was his wife who was the spendthrift, Walter Mitty fantasist, would we all be as judgmental?

There is still the common acceptance that HE must be the breadwinner. Maybe your DiL indulges his dreams too.
Either way it's time for you to pull out. Tough love and all that.

This reminds me of a friend's son who was always coming up with one get rich quick scheme after another. His parents would give him money to get started and then the "investors" he had lined up to "invest in a couple of months time" would disappear.

The last scheme required more money than his parents had so they asked if I would help out. I had no intention of doing so but said I would look at the proposition. The son then turned up expecting me to hand over a cheque and was very surprised when I asked for a business breakdown. He eventually came up with something which showed completely unrealistic profits and no allowance for contingencies, tax, outgoings etc. I was able to point out to his parents, as kindly as I could, that their son was not the great businessman he believed himself to be. Whilst they still support him by paying rent, bills and giving him an allowance for food etc. they no longer back any of his hair brained schemes.

It must be hard for parents to tell their children they are not prepared to back their various schemes, but there comes a time when it is kinder to do so than to allow them to continue to be deluded as to their abilities.

I have a small query here: If the tables were turned and it was his wife who was the spendthrift, Walter Mitty fantasist, would we all be as judgmental

I think we would Grammaretto, it’s not just the Walter Mitty fantasies, it’s the exploitation of the rest of the family isn’t it? That plus my inner suspicion that OP has not really yet “seen through” the fantasies of this “over-experienced” man who is always being “let down” by “investors”.

It may be beneath him but perhaps he could join a cleaning firm- even one which runs throughout the night- that is if he knows how to wield a hoover and clean. It would bring money in, not a fortune but slowly he could pay his debts off. Maybe a bus driver?

As others have said, IT would not employ him nowadays.

Yes I can see that too MawBroonsback
I was thinking perhaps of another man who has been without a proper job for sometime but is looking after the children and househusbanding.
His partner has a job so they are not too badly off but she is tired and he would like to get back to work..
Everyone feels sorry for him in a way which suggests inequality.
The time spent away from work looking after children, for either parent, doesn't count for anything on your CV, which is grossly unjust in my opinion.

I have a small query here: If the tables were turned and it was his wife who was the spendthrift, Walter Mitty fantasist, would we all be as judgmental

Absolutely and totally.

And I do not really understand the point of your post above *Grammaretto. Why would anyone in the situation your describe feel sorry for him in a way which suggests inequality.. Although I would agree with your last setence.

It's wandering off topic I'm afraid but for example:
Lots of women have jobs, cook, do housework and look after children but if a man does this it's seen as exceptional.
I think what I was trying to say was that if OP's daughter in law earns enough to allow her profligate DH to play at being a business man, it is her prerogative.

Many thanks to everyone. I have told him many many times over the years exactly what I thought,because I was so worried about how they,d manage,especially once they,d had a child.But obviously it went in one ear and out the other. The upshot now is he refuses to talk or text me and I doubt if I,ll be able to see my granddaughter. BUT while at one time I,d give in, now there’s definitely going to be no more handouts.

Now you need to hold your nerve Bev. None of us want to disappoint our children but you’ll have to ride out any tantrums and stay strong.

Bev, it is going to be very hard to follow up with this so I do hope you have trusted friends who can support you and let you vent your frustrations and sadness about all of this. For everyone's sake you do need to stick to your decisions, they are the right ones but being right doesn't make it easy. And you can always get back to GN to sound out other people's views and advice from those who have dealt with similar issues.

At first I wondered if I knew your son? But reading on it is just the scenario that is so familiar to me.

One of my dearest friends was in exact same situation - her partner always chasing the dream to the extent he did absolutely nothing for years convinced it was just around the corner!

She never married him and they have no children but continued to support him (she has a very well paid job) but it annoyed her so much that he would not even 'try' to get a job in other areas. She told him that IF he got a job on minimum wage even she would be happy but no, he refused to consider it as thought it was beneath him.

Well the result is that after many years, she kicked him out. She genuinely cried buckets as she does love him (and him her) and he is a really nice guy, but as she said he can't love her enough.

She hopes that taking the extreme step it will shake him up but in all honesty although he says he misses her etc he still won't take that step to look in another direction! I don't think he ever will. He has been bailed out by family and friends on many occasions and was left a substantial legacy by a relative but all this has now gone too and STILL he refuses to consider any alternative suggestions.

All I can do is agree completely with all other posters and would even suggest his wife takes a stand (but obviously she married him for better for worse so slightly more complicated)

Please don't beat yourself up Bev...you have gone over and above what most of us would ever have done. I do know how sad it is for you though.

to Grammaretto - agree with you (although it is a totally different topic) If women take time out to raise children then it is deemed totally acceptable but if men do it then employers regard them suspiciously. Like they couldn't be bothered to work? Very difficult for men to get back into work after raising kids which is not so much an issue for women? It is a throw back to how it was and how the roles of men and women are perceived by many still.

Maybe things WILL change in time but it will take a heck of a long time to ensure 'equality' in all areas I think. I doubt I will be around to see it.

Absolutely agree with those saying no to anymore financial help. We had a similar situation with our eldest son, until We decided to say no more, we had our future retirement to think of. Your son is a grown man as is ours, time to stop the bank of Mum and Dad and get a job. He can still chase his dream in his spare time. His poor wife must have the patience of a saint.

Stop enabling him and say no
Time for him to grow the F up!

Is that supposed to be a helpful message Bugbabe??

So he will keep asking for money!!! Where ever he can source it mostly from you because it is easy, he could be bi polar a fantasist, ideas of grandeur. Completely irresponsible with money, the kindest thing to do is tell him to earn it himself, say NO. you are enabling his condition. He does not care where he gets the money he will find someone else to take from. He needs to see a therapist, he has a problem time to wake up and help him not feed it. Sounds like his poor suffering wife needs support. Gambling will be the next thing!!!