funding Labour manifesto promises

Knowing tax laws doesn't make anyone particularly knowledgeable about the mechanics of the monetary system. It's a
totally different subject.
I'd be curious to know what he says, though.

Well fancy that MaizieD, who knew?
There was me thinking that the Treasury Clerks sat at high desks counting the money I had dutifully taken in in little cotton bags to pay my tax.
I did apologise that it was all in 5p pieces last time, a bit fiddly for cold fingers, but they assured me that they were allowed to wear fingerless gloves.

As DGN has just completed the final part of his tax laws I must ask him about this. Well I never.

That was to MaizieD 19.20.20 post.

I understand MaizieD and have some sympathy for that idea, but it’s essentially Communism which sounds great in theory but falls down horribly in practice.
A Capitalist society is one that works best, for all it’s faults.
The ideal would be to have a moderate Conservative government in power, a country which welcomes investments and business and generates money and jobs but also looks after the interests of those at the lower end of society (money-wise speaking.)
This Conservative government is not the ideal moderate one,
But could become so if enough time elapses between this GE
And the next one.If not, it’s safe to say that Labour will get in at that following election, with itself a more moderate Labour
Cabinet, and Corbyn and McDonnell will be a footnote in history.
At the moment, although it’s what you and many other Socialists would like to happen, the manifesto just presented by them is too extreme to appeal to any voters of any intelligence.Which is why they are highly likely to lose this GE.

Sorry, the point of that ramble is that the ONS isn't telling you the whole story.

You do know, Call, don't you that most of our 'money' doesn't actually exist in any tangible form? It's just a series of credits and debits on bank computers. Your bank doesn't hold any tangible form of money (apart from some cash, which people like to use for some things, but is increasingly used less and less in financial transactions), it mainly has figures on a computer. When it 'lends' money it tends to create it, under licence from the Bank of England, it doesn't have to have taken in enough in deposits to cover the loan.

Our income tax isn't the only source of 'income' the government has. It takes corporation tax from companies, tax on dividends and VAT from companies and consumers. It also has income from sundries like the Crown Estates. So the little pie chart on your tax return is a little bit of fiction really. At best it probably describes the theoretical apportionment of income tax receipts to various usages, but it doesn't account for all the other sources of government income allocated to them, or give any hint that the government itself, via the Bank of England, is able to 'create' money if it needs to (see quantitative easing). It does, though, deliberately or not, I don't know, give the impression that your tax is needed to pay for government expenditure amd is its only source of income. Which is handy for the government when it insists that it 'can't afford' to fund the NHS, or Education, or whatever.

Which doesn't mean to say that we don't need to pay our taxes. If we didn't pay any tax and the government just kept on creating money to cover its spending needs inflation would be rampant because there would be far too much 'money' around.

P.S The thing about computer generated credits and debits was confirmed to me by a friend who held a very senior position in a well known UK bank.

If tax receipts do not fund government spending then:
Where do tax receipts go?
Who funds welfare, pensions, the NHS, education etc etc?

Do you know more than the ONS?

I really don't understand why, when the Labour Party manifesto and the cost of providing it puts us on an about average social and monetary basis, some on her are painting it as outlandish.

Surely what is outlandish, even reprehensible, is the winding down of our NHS by starving it of our money paid to keep us in good health; is the starving of children in ever growing numbers in the fifth largest economy and the divide that is ever growing between the haves and the can't haves, the favoured future and the future denied.

If the Labour Party's Green New Deal will give us warm homes, over time, for all, a proper wage for our labour, protection of our NHS and the end of Victorian style poverty why would you vote for a party which has, over the last forty years moved further and further to the right, become more and more racist and has left us with a collapsing school system, collapsing benefit and welfare system and a collapsing NHS to name but a few?

Why, then, do I have a nice little pie chart attached to my tax return telling me how my tax has been and what it has funded?

Because perpetrating the myth stops questions being asked.

lemon you state population growth as being a reason for poor services and more demands on the NHS and education. But between 1998 and 2010 the growth was approximately the same as between 2010 and 2019- approx 4 mill. And services were better because education and the NHS were properly funded and invested in. www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/timeseries/ukpop/pop
The argument about Unions and disruptions is unsupported if you look at the real evidence. Unions have existed since 1889. The period of disruption is minimal compared with the length of their history. It should also be taken into account that Labour plan to give workers a say in the running of companies, workers with a real investment in the company will be even less likely to take industrial action.
Returning the country to one run on the same lines as it was after WW2 is something I would love to see. It's the sort of country I want my GCs too grow up in.

Tax receipts do not fund spending

Why, then, do I have a nice little pie chart attached to my tax return telling me how my tax has been and what it has funded?

I should add that I am glad to contribute my miniscule amount to the coffers in the belief that it was helping to fund services.

Our substantial Council tax goes to fund local services and we personally receive little benefit in exchange for our tax; however, that is how it works in theory and we are happy that this is so, although in practice our Council's spending is questionable.

You don't make any sense to me, GG13. Sorry.

How do you draw that conclusion from what I posted?

Taxation is the tool whereby inflation is controlled. Too much money in the 'system' is inflationary. That would indeed be very silly. It also prevents monopolisation of resources by the wealthy and helps to redistribute them more fairly.

You talk of envy, but, thinking about it, I really can't see that any person has a God Given right to have more of the earth's resources than their fellow humans. Especially when they are keeping to themselves more than they could ever have any use for.

I don't have a problem with discrepancies in wealth but for some people to have more than they could ever need while others are barely subsisting feels obscene. I'm not envious of them, just angry.

So where's Plaid Cymru?

That's going to be quite a job, working out who is owed what if all utilities are re-nationalised!

I think water could be run as non-profit companies such as they do in Wales.

Right.
Cava poured and I’m settling down now to watch the extended QT ... half an hour each of Corbyn, Sturgeon, Swinson and Boris.

I must be a glutton for punishment!

Probably quite right WeekendVisit
?
Good point!

Hi Urmstongran, nice and hot here just relaxing at our sons home and thought I would catch up with the “comedy show” which is Labours manifesto.

According to the Institute for Fiscal Studies, Labour proposes spending 2.3% more than the last Government by 2023/24.

Hardly a revolutionary amount.

How is he going to fund all this?

Tax receipts do not fund spending
Perhaps you could explain that to Jeremy Corbyn who says he is going to tax higher earners to help to fund his plans. (Note said help).

If tax receipts do not fund spending why would he need to tax anyone?

tax receipts do not fund spending
All spending - will return to the Treasury by way of taxation

Yes, we know it's not like a household budget.

Labour will nationalise utilities, then ten years later the Tories will sell them off.

Also GG13 (hi there over in Kenya ?) ....

if Labour’s proposed referendum on their super duper ‘new deal’ with the EU comes to Remain in their planned referendum on it (who knows?) then some off their plans won’t even leave the starting block!

I thang kew Urmston and your humour just made me smile as well ( big hitting beasts on here.......where ?!) ?

No WWM2 I never feel embarrassed about being, as you put it ‘called out’ especially as I have no idea which bit you are calling me out for.?
I gather you are annoyed by my remarks on the LP manifesto, but let me tell you, millions of people are either laughing at it or are deeply worried that if the LP were to get into power they would ruin the economy in the next five
years, plus they would plunge us into another year of uncertainty with two referendums.?

MaizieD if tax revenue received does not fund spending............Labour and Corbyns “manifesto” is just a “myth” and they are truly the party of “envy taxes” and totally against anyone who wants to better themselves!!!!!

Jolyon Rubinstein
@JolyonRubs
The Labour Party Manifesto is the most progressive & impressive manifesto of my life time. It offers genuine and substantial change ends Privatisation of public services, puts huge amounts of much needed funding into the NHS and moves us towards a green industrial revolution.