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AIBU

funding Labour manifesto promises

(158 Posts)
humptydumpty Fri 22-Nov-19 13:03:11

I was listening to a Conservative (minister?) talking on Today this morning, and criticising Lasbour for needing to put up taxes, whereas their promises were freebies (yeah right).

AIBU to think that if we are to get better services of whatever sort, we would/should expect to pay for them? after all, in our private lives this is our experience every day - if you want to have something, you have to pay for it, above and beyond what you would otherwise have spent.

Am I missing something here??

yggdrasil Fri 22-Nov-19 13:17:17

No of course you are not being unreasonable. Except maybe in listening to a Conservative Minister who would only talk about Labour not his own party's policies.
And if you read the Labour manifesto, you will see that the taxes they intend to raise are on people earning over £80,000. Which isn't me, and probably not you, but certainly that Minister:-)

dragonfly46 Fri 22-Nov-19 13:33:45

I would be happy to pay more tax but would hope it would be spent wisely. I will not be voting Labour.

Urmstongran Fri 22-Nov-19 13:41:14

Seems the richest 5% had better stay put because Corbyn has said they will be the only ones facing tax rises!

Free university tuition fees, free dental check-ups, personal care for the elderly, free broadband, free television licences for over-75s and more.

The bill adds up to £82 billion, by Labour’s own costings, almost twice the price of Corbyn’s last manifesto – and that’s before we count the £196 billion of borrowing for the various nationalisations. But, we’re told, 95% of the population need not worry - It will all be drawn from the tax-dodging rich!

The Institute for Fiscal Studies, which does its best to be politically neutral, is now running out of polite ways to say how damaging all of this would be. “It’s impossible to overstate just how extraordinary this manifesto is, just in terms of the sheer scale of money being spent and raised through the tax system,” said Paul Johnson, its director. “Vast numbers. Enormous. Colossal.”

Daisymae Fri 22-Nov-19 13:41:17

I think that if we want to live in a decent, safe country then yes we will have to pay. Surely that's worth it? I fail to see how anyone who uses, or hopes to use the NHS will not vote labour. It's time for a change in policy.

varian Fri 22-Nov-19 13:48:17

No party can possibly claim to have a properly cunded manifesto until we know whether we will remain in tbe EU or suffer the huge loss of revenue that would result from leaving.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 22-Nov-19 13:52:28

The Labour Manifesto

labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Real-Change-Labour-Manifesto-2019.pdf

Whitewavemark2 Fri 22-Nov-19 13:55:32

Putting the level of spending into perspective. Click to enlarge the image.

Davidhs Fri 22-Nov-19 14:04:32

There are only 2 ways to spend more, either borrow more or tax more.
Borrowing so that production can be increased is OK but borrowing to give it all away is a really bad idea.
Tax more to provide better services, no problem with that but don’t let any one kid you taxing only the wealthy does not gain much. Only taxes the majority pay raises significant revenue and to be brutally honest our age group are going to be a target.

Maggiemaybe Fri 22-Nov-19 14:10:16

Exactly, Whitewave, perspective is important. One of the panel on Question Time last night said the plans would bring our public spending in line with that of Germany. No bad thing, imho.

suziewoozie Fri 22-Nov-19 14:15:08

Never mind when (if?) the Conservative Party manifesto comes out, it will be entirely transparent, fully and openly costed, and be the blueprint for a New World. Can’t wait

Urmstongran Fri 22-Nov-19 14:28:24

Having vowed to repeal the Trade Union Act within 100 days of taking power, Labour is expected to set out plans to reduce voting thresholds for strike action. Teachers, the firservice, nurses etc will be able to vote to come out on strike in support, of say, the postal workers.

Ring any bells from the ‘70s? Scary stuff.

‘WORKERS UNITE!’ was the clarion call back then and we became ‘the sick man of Europe’.

A Labour source claimed yesterday that the manifesto would “major” on employment and union rights.

To make it easier to strike, the party is expected to lower thresholds for industrial action from 50% of the eligible workers to 40%.

Hold onto your hats .... I can sense another Winter of Discontent coming on!

Smileless2012 Fri 22-Nov-19 14:32:21

Only if they win Urmstongran which hopefully they wont.

Urmstongran Fri 22-Nov-19 14:38:11

When Boris Johnson was asked what he would buy Jeremy Corbyn for Christmas, my husband immediately suggested a calculator!

MaizieD Fri 22-Nov-19 14:44:11

There are only 2 ways to spend more, either borrow more or tax more.

No David, the treasury can also just issue more money via the Bank of England, as it did when it issued £200 billion during the Global Financial Crisis to shore up the banks and guarantee peoples bank deposits up to a certain amount. Also the £60 billion to bolster the pound when it plummeted after the shock referendum result.

They can indeed 'borrow, in the form of issuing bonds which people and institutions buy as a safe option for saving their money. I understand that there is a big demand for bonds at the moment. But with interest rates so low the cost of servicing the interest is probably zero after a year or so when inflation is taken into account.

I don't see where you get the idea that Labour intends to 'borrow to give it all away' comes from? Can you clarify.

This is a very informative site if you're interested. Best read with an open mind, though.

gimms.org.uk/

Gaunt47 Fri 22-Nov-19 14:46:57

Oh crikey - can these eejits learn nothing from history? Do they not see that the super rich have always been able, and will continue, to evade taxes, move abroad, etc. It's working people on PAYE who will be paying these bills...

Smileless2012 Fri 22-Nov-19 14:50:34

Urmstongran but would he know how to use one?grin

lemongrove Fri 22-Nov-19 14:57:34

Exactly Davidhs.....but Labour fans won’t ( refuse actually) to see it!
Oh.....’it’s all costed’ 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Luckily many voters, including previous Labour ones, can see it’s pie in the sky.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 22-Nov-19 15:01:38

Laura Kuenssberg @ CCHQ Propaganda Dept
@LKTranslator
·
20h
Labour has been in govt for a total of 33yrs & borrowed £500bn = £15.15bn a year

The Tory govt has ruled 9yrs & increased the debt by £1tn = £111.11bn a year.

Tories spent 7.5x more than Labour per year & in 9yrs, doubled what Labour spent in 33yrs.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 22-Nov-19 15:07:58

The labour manifesto is giving so many people so much hope.

Green New Deal Now Blakeley
@graceblakeley
·

I’m halfway through the manifesto and I’m not ashamed to say I’m in tears.

This isn’t just a plan to take on the powerful, it’s a plan to rebuild our society from the ground up - a collective vision for a better

lemongrove Fri 22-Nov-19 15:11:29

Under the Conservatives ( last three GE’s) the population of this country has boomed out of all imagination.
The NHS has taken record amounts of money to keep going , and classroom places have spiralled out of control, just to name two things.
They built more council houses than Labour under Blair for a long time, and had the financial crash to contend with.
Labour has committed itself to spending twice what it put forward at the last GE just two years ago....mind boggling amounts.

Callistemon Fri 22-Nov-19 15:25:28

Exactly Gaunt47

Yes, we do want good services and should all be prepared to pay for them but by targeting only the very rich (what is rich?
In some areas £80,000 pa income would barely keep head above water if you had a huge mortgage), as you say, the very rich can move overseas with ease or pay well to move their money around.

Businesses need to pay a fair share but how many will relocate?

Callistemon Fri 22-Nov-19 15:27:37

I was hoping for better than a fairy tale, I was hoping for some realistic targets.

lemongrove Fri 22-Nov-19 15:29:03

WWM2 .....I suspect a lot of business people are in tears too,
Not to mention much of the general public!

Urmstongran Fri 22-Nov-19 15:37:16

Thankfully Labour are digging their own grave.