CIS women

The message you send children when you use CIS Vs non-binary/trans, is that if they do not comply with gender steriotypes, then they are not "real" males/females.

No wonder children in your care are struggling with this and feel forced to redefine themselves!

This isnt the 50s! Women doesnt = meek, coy and pretty dresses and dollies. Man doesn't = butch, stoic, and manly sports!

It is fine to be a "girly" woman. But you tell other women that its not fine to be a woman and butch/sporty/etc if you present CIS as the only alternative to being trans or non binary

If you want to proudly declare that you match gender steriotypes in your private life, fine! But it is not okay to do so to children who should be able to go to school in a slightly more progressive environment where your sex doesnt have to conform to gender steriotypes in order for you to be accepted as that sex.

Using CIS is not moving with the times. It is regressive.

Gagajo using CIS around girls is teaching them that if they are female but not steriotypical girly, then they are non-women.

This will cause so much uneccesary anguish to children as they develop. Please don't.

Racist children come from racist families. Education devaluing children come from families that do not value education. Bigotry is learned behaviour.

I'm glad to say that from my own personal experience that your statement is far from true GagaJo.

I value kindliness very highly, but truth and justice must be served alongside. I have very close, personal, and recent experience of this issue and have seen first hand how the Trans narrative has caused untold harm to a very vulnerable person. Fortunately this person has a warm, accepting and loving family who are able to help Humpty get put back together, but I believe there are many others who are left isolated and deeply, deeply confused and abused.

This is not a simple matter of inclusion if by including some there is an exclusionary effect for others. Women's rights were hard won and women's experience is unique to women. So no, I am not a cis woman, my biology dictates that I am a woman - simply that. I totally reject the notion that someone can force an unwanted term onto another.

I do have a great deal of sympathy for trans-people who are negotiating a tricky path, but it needs to be acknowledged that there are few safe places for people to debate this topic without being declared an enemy.

Dear god. The point is the lgb community is split on this, so yes some would agree with the statement you posted.
Here are a range of responses to one of
Stonewalls fairly innocuous tweets on sport.

A disgusting betrayal of the name of Stonewall now a term of shame in the U.K
I used to respect you stonewall now you are just walking all over womens rights
Tackling homophobia in sport is a completely different thing to campaigning for males to compete in womens sport. Shameful organisation.
Drop the cis please.
All the above tweets are on stonewalls twitter feed for anyone to see. Post after post, some of them were so to the point I didn't dare repeat them. Everyone can see them and I am certain they are not being posted by GN members.

I've always preferred to label myself to avoid having others label me. But now I'm pleased to be so old as to be invisible, to be honest. I feel old age degenders me (not trans, JUST not as feminine).

I see trans issues from the POV of the students I have had that struggle with it. I've had a few in the last 10 years, in the three countries I've lived in. They were each different and I am very glad I do not have the uphill battle they do. SUCH a hard thing to do. Being called a CIS woman, in comparison to what those kids go through is nothing. The one at my current school breaks my heart.

We live our life being as open and fairminded as we can.

I do not oppose transpeople but I will not jump on a bandwagon and call myself cis. ugh.
And if I disagree with someone then I feel that is ok.
In fact I am anti label.
I am a person who wants a fairer world and likes the Dalai Lama.

I don't mind who he is, or who he loves. As long as he is kind. I'd quite like it if he liked books, but doesn't look that way so far.

No gagjo

I have not turned out identical to my parents. I do not share their prejudices and I resent you saying that is how it is.

My nan was fiercely racist and no one else in the family has been.
see people can have their own minds.

You are right to teach DGS not to hurt animals. I hope he doesn't. But you cannot totally shape him. he maybe very openminded but in a different way to you.

Perhaps he will want to be dead straight and monogamous?
I have seen what rebellious teens can do.......and also who they fall in love with. It's not predictable.

We are very definitely into equality and fairness and kindness also .
But I don't agree with you on the transgender issue. I liked Simon Fanshawe's article.

And I quote:

A new lesbian, gay and bisexual alliance group has been heavily criticised for excluding the transgender community, prompting people to label it transphobic.

The new alliance is formed of previous members of LGBT+ charity Stonewall who have decided to protest against the organisation’s transgender stance.

At the meeting, the group formed of “influential lesbians, gay men and bisexuals” revealed its mission to “counteract the confusion between sex and gender which is now widespread in the public sector and elsewhere”.

The LGB Alliance will be formally launched in January 2020, but hundreds of people have already criticised the group on social media for its perceived anti-trans stance.

On Twitter, the group describes its aim as: "Asserting the right of lesbians, bisexuals and gay men to define themselves as same-sex attracted. Gender is a social construct."

One person tweeted: “As a bisexual woman, I am utterly disgusted at your attacks on our trans siblings and your alliance with the religious right. You do not speak for me (or for any of the other queers I know – we’re all equally repulsed by your ideas).”

Another person tweeted that members of the group “should be ashamed” of themselves.

Others sought to deny the existence of an “LGB” movement altogether, with one person tweeting: “There is no LGB movement. Not one that doesn’t stand side by side with trans people. Speaking as a bisexual guy, no less is acceptable, and you definitely don’t speak for me.”

gagajo

I am not all that old and I have lived a very open minded life and I do not believe that people oppose ideas just because they are new. Even if you see it that way.

Look I don't care if a person decides to live their life as if of the opposite sex tot heir birth but ther is also a reality that we women share. And you cannot deny this though you may try to.

Periods, childbirth, fear of pregnancy, fear of not having children, menopause are all experiences women share. If someone is outside that experience then do not know what it is like.
these experiences make us women. Not dresses hair and make up.

You can live that way and I have no opposition.
I have had transgender friends. Now I live a very different life thanks to disability and so I do not socialize in the same ways.

Do you really believe that on Gransnet is an agenda to oppose new ideas?

I find it offensive that you think all elderly people as unable to embrace new ideas...isn't that very discriminatory of you?
Being older is different to being young for sure but please stop dissing people just because they have wrinkles and years on them

Shouldn't you be more open minded and what do you know about other people's suffering?

But I disagree. You CAN tell somewhat how a young person will turn out.

Racist children come from racist families. Education devaluing children come from families that do not value education. Bigotry is learned behaviour.

We are currently teaching my very boisterous, loud grandson about kindness to animals. There is NO way he is going to get away with growing up being unkind to animals.

So you imagine all the people on the stonewall Twitter feed are elderly? Any thread on the stonewall Twitter (not the new organisation) that discusses trans issues has post after post voicing concerns.What are you talking about. Its not a gransnet agenda, crikey you should have a look st mumsnet if you think that. The reason it is raised on both these forums is because they are predominantly female forums and this impacts on womens rights.

Not negative, negate. Typo.

No one is calling anyone names pinkquartz. That would totally negative my call for inclusivity, don't you think?

Apologies, I missed that group off. I do of course, include people of all physical abilities. To fail to do so would completely go against my world view.

gagajo

I have five grandchildren. all different.

You cannot possibly know how a young person will turn out....if they have their own mind.

I am not anti trans but i will not be told by trans theorists what i am to be called.

We are a very open minded family....I will not give details on here...but you cannot call me names so don't bother.
All are equal and all different .
I notice you didn't mention disability though ...are we left out ...as usual then.

I checked it out after your first comment. Only to find that they had hundreds of complaints about their trans exclusionary POV.

There is a Gransnet member agenda to oppose a modern movement designed to support vulnerable people. No attempt to understand or see the issue from the perspective of the suffering of others. It is a very unattractive attitude and is one of the reasons why younger people dismiss the opinions of the elderly, because they see us as unable to keep up with 'the times'.

To be clear, I am NOT saying we have to support something just because it is new. But equally, it is not a coincidence that a forum for elderly people is very anti something that is new and unfamiliar to them.

It is not inevitable that women are to be wiped out by language
Hear hear - and to the rest of it!

You might want to check it out then gagajo,founded by simon fanshawe, one of the original founders of stonewall. You might want to read the stonewall twitter feed and see the angry responses from lesbians and gay men.
Maybe look at the whistleblowing going on from professionals within the tavistock clinic who are raising serious concerns about transitioning among young people.

I brought my daughter up to embrace inclusivity and for all of our differences, she embraces it. My grandson will grow up the same way.

Race, colour, creed, gender, sexual preference. All human. All equal.

Our grandchildren are the future.....and they are not all going to go meekly along with trans theory just cos it is on trend atm

It is not inevitable that women are to be wiped out by language
I will not be called a bloody cis. Think of all the trauma many of us women go through.
painful period, childbirth and menopause and then some young person tells us what we are going to be called!
I don't think so.
I am holding back on what I say and my language here but most women will not go along with this and neither will their partners and families.
the minority are not going to push through the rest of us.
And tell me I am narrow minded is boll***s so don't bother.

Hmmm, I worked on a lesbian and gay helpline for years. None of my friends left from those days feel that way.

There are always minorities that resist change. But it's inevitable.

Many gay people dont agree with you on that gagajo which is why a new organisation has been formed to focus on the needs of lgb people. They believe that many of the theories and language around the trans debate are harmful to gay people in particular lesbians.

TerriBull It shows how far this insidious TRA movement is gaining traction in day to day discoure that you referred in your original post to sex "assigned" at birth. That is a TRA term.

Sex is not "assigned" or at least it wasn't till the TRAs led the agenda. Sex was "recorded" or "observed".

Assigned, along with "'cis" should be kicked into touch.

We can scream and shout all we like, BUT we are not the future.

Society/culture/language changes. Our day has been and gone. The more we resist change, the less relevant we are.

Social movements ebb and flow. Some flow directly into the next one. Gay rights/feminism/queer theory/trans theory.

I like how inclusive society is becoming. It's still just people, with less people left out or marginalised.