Gransnet forums

AIBU

CIS women

(110 Posts)
TerriBull Sun 24-Nov-19 10:04:18

I've been listening to Jo Swinson being interviewed by Andrew Marr, the subject of trans rights came up. She used the CIS pronoun several times to differentiate between trans women and women per se. Most of the wider public are not aware what CIS means, a friend of mine had to complete a form at work where she was asked to classify herself, several options "CIS" being one of them, she had to seek clarification as she had no idea whether she was one or not confused Why is the word woman not an adequate enough description to the majority of the female population who will remain in the sex they were assigned at birth?

TerriBull Sun 24-Nov-19 10:13:25

pronoun adjective

Urmstongran Sun 24-Nov-19 10:15:16

To be honest I’ve gotten so confused by all the definitions and after reading articles where surgery for ‘transitioning’ I think it’s called, has upset greatly those who have changed their mind and now want to ‘go back’ to what they were before, I’ve given up thinking about the subject any more.

Some of these articles shared personal profiles from people that they were in a bad place, were listened to far too readily and offered hormones and surgery when, with hindsight they probably had mental health anxieties and time would have helped, giving them time to ‘grow up’.

annsixty Sun 24-Nov-19 10:17:05

I would score a line through any form containing this nonsense.
I am a woman, pure and simple.
I dont need clever , up themselves, correct people to define me in any other way.
Jo Swinson is destroying the LibDems single handedly.

MawB Sun 24-Nov-19 10:23:28

Annsixty isn’t she just?
I keep hoping all this havering will just go away if I ignore it long enough.
What what a god given opportunity for the LibDems toprofit from the other extremes - and thrown away.

Rocknroll5me Sun 24-Nov-19 10:29:41

In normalising the transgender position and exceptionalising the gender conformism of ‘being happy in the biological sex one is born with’ where sex and gender are the same, also, I think raises problems of it’s own.
So many women are not happy with the restraints their gender brings with it, culturally, historically. There would be no sexual revolution, no feminism without dissent and a redefining of gender. This is its danger. It hints at a self satisfied acceptance of all the limitations of gender expectations in society as well as reinforcing the dependency on the male. Make gender conform to sex. Don’t change sex to confirm to gender.

Galaxy Sun 24-Nov-19 10:39:09

The lib dems hold many policies which damage women , they support prostitution being made legal, support self ID, and are utterly opposed to age verification for porn.
Misogyny runs through the party.

Gonegirl Sun 24-Nov-19 10:41:30

Completely agree with annsixty.

Urmstongran Sun 24-Nov-19 10:50:03

Me too.

Can we still say that these days?!

Urmstongran Sun 24-Nov-19 10:51:20

Posted too soon.

I meant to add ‘without it meaning something else’!

oldgimmer1 Sun 24-Nov-19 10:55:58

@rock I kind of agree with you, although I hadn't given it much thought before.

So by removing difference, we are actually creating a situation whereby there's no room for conflict?

What I don't get is: why doesn't a move towards gender neutrality mean that there are fewer terms? Or no terms?

Surely the most effective way of making a person gender-neutral is by not asking the question?

(Although I think I know why we still do..).

MawB Sun 24-Nov-19 10:57:35

Rocknroll5me - what?

HurdyGurdy Sun 24-Nov-19 11:00:23

One of my work colleagues went on a training course which I think dealt with gender types (for want of a better phrase)

She came back with a list of all the names and explanations. It ran to about five sides of A4 paper.

I didn't even bother reading it, but my eyes were rolling furiously as my other colleagues were reading out some of the definitions.

TerriBull Sun 24-Nov-19 11:45:36

Of course it's anyone's prerogative to redefine themselves, hence the "trans" (transitioning) Nevertheless most of us aren't in a state of flux and therefore wish to remain with the nouns that have defined us since the beginning of time, without additions thank you very much Jo Swinson and anyone else who subcribes to using this stupid unnecessary label and applying it to the whole of womenkind.

sodapop Sun 24-Nov-19 12:35:50

Go Terribull you are so right.

pinkquartz Sun 24-Nov-19 12:41:40

reading this Jo Swinson has just validated my decision to not vote Lib Dem not even tactically

If she doesn't support women now she never will.

notanan2 Sun 24-Nov-19 12:45:22

I am absolutely not CIS.

My natal sex does not conform/match some man's definition of "girly" gender appearances and behaviours thank you very much!

And no that doesnt make me a transman either!

pinkquartz Sun 24-Nov-19 12:55:38

why hasn't anyone pointed out to Jo Swinson how offensive that word is to women?

I despair how stupid politicians can be

SueDonim Sun 24-Nov-19 12:58:35

'Cis' gets my goat, too. How dare they redefine people without asking them if they want to be redefined? angry

Rocknroll5me Sun 24-Nov-19 13:00:54

the most vocal opponents of being labelled CISWOMEN are lesbians who are very happy being in the sex they were born into.
It seems to me that as soon as women get ahead, actually get power, get attention - men move in. So the gender discourse is now all on their side. Trans (a common prefix that everyone understands) as in transwomen (women born male) now have to stand equally amongst ciswomen (women born female) so as not to make transwomen feel 'othered' or not women.
Jo Swinson is stupid to let herself get intimidated to using such terms, although the trans lobby are very powerful and if you don't conform will yell TERF. (trans exclusionary radical feminists) like they did to Germain Greer who has been banned a speaking platform at many universities because of it. We must not be bullied or made scared by such tactics.

pinkquartz Sun 24-Nov-19 13:05:15

Rocknroll5me

Yes she should not be bullied or scared therefore she must be stupid to let down the women.
Jo Swinson is a politician...she should be used to being shouted at.

Why don't we matter to her?
She has made a big blunder.

BlueBelle Sun 24-Nov-19 13:10:05

I had to google CIS I ve never heard it used and no idea what it meant what a load of nonsense it’s not something I ll be using any time soon
I have no problem recognising that some people feel they are born in the wrong body (although I think there are also some attention seekers who have jumped on the band wagon) and they can take on what ever name or initials they want to, but I don’t need to publicly identify myself I know what I am and I don’t need to add any fancy initials to define me.
Anyone who is that unsure can take me out for a drink and find out 😂😂😂

MawB Sun 24-Nov-19 13:19:56

Is it sexist to refer to all that as a load of b*ll*cks?

BlueBelle Sun 24-Nov-19 13:42:55

Ahhh let’s be sexist then MawB total and utter bxxxxxx

Doodledog Sun 24-Nov-19 13:42:55

For those who enjoy knowing the derivations of words - the term 'cis' is Latin for 'on this side of something' - the opposite of 'trans' (on the far side of something) and is used, for example, to describe Cisalpine Gaul (Gaul on the near side of the Alps) and Transalpine Gaul (Gaul on the far side of the Alps), Transylvania is land on the other side of the forest, etc.

I agree with Rocknroll5me on all counts; which is why I have such serious reservations about children and young people being 'allowed' to transition, despite the fact that I generally hold very liberal (small 'l') values, and why I object to men self defining as female and being allowed in women's spaces on demand.

On here (and it would be the same elsewhere, except that it is not a topic that comes up for me very often offline), this is assumed to mean that I (or others holding similar views) am right wing, bigoted and transphobic, which is entirely untrue, and shows the prejudice of the trans lobby.

I have, however, seen friends of mine being hassled because they object more vocally, and find it quite scary that the views of a relatively small number of people are being forced into the mainstream, with cries of 'TERF' being used against anyone who doesn't share them.

All objections are rolled into one facile term, which takes no account of the nuances of people's opinions, which are not necessarily shared by all who have misgivings about parts of the trans agenda.