CIS women

Well people can vote with their feet and show marks what they want and what they don’t want

Terri I refused to watch her on Andrew Marr ( recorded it so I could fast forward when needed.)
We are not cis anything, we are women, and to hear a woman spouting all the claptrap surrounding trans ( and self identifying) was dismal in the extreme.

M&S are saying that if we object to a Mixed changing room then we the problem for being too narrowminded.

Yes, this is the same sort of gaslighting that makes assumptions of bigotry etc about those who question the agenda. It's insidious and messed up, but it seems to be gaining ground.

On mumsnet is a thread where women are boycotting M&S because of the Mixed gender changing rooms....or to be more accurate because M&S have taken away Female only Changing Rooms.

it would be good if more women would join in as money is th e onlything a business listens to.

Many have tried to write or email M&S but they are always ignored with just a bland justification.
M&S are saying that if we object to a Mixed changing room then we the problem for being too narrowminded.

Not the men who fetishize wearing women's clothes especially underwear. They will literally get off on going into the Changing room trying on lingerie and then well use your imagination.
Stuff like this has been put on twitter and other web places so it is all accounted for.

M&S could have added a third space for Mixed but have chosen not to.

prejorative pejorative.

I can honestly say if I hadn't gone on to some of the MN threads, I wouldn't be familiar with the terms TERF or CIS, and I still think that applies to most of society. I think some of the changes that will affect women are insidious insomuch as they may well not be aware of them until they find themselves being fitted for a bra in say Marks and Spencers and find a man in the next cubicle. Most men of course would be as equally embarrassed as indeed the women/girls would be should they find themselves in that position and I have no doubt men in general would do their upmost to avoid such an encounter. There are of course a minority of a predatory nature, given we unfortunately now live in the age of "upskirting" and the like who may well exploit such a situation. It's all very well retaileres saying they will deal with any untoward behaviour should it occur, by that time it could well be too late and the damage will have been done.

I believe that on Mumsnet, where they are often more forthright than we are on GN, there are those who would turn the term TERF back on those who use it as TerriBull has defined it. They translate it as (I think this is accurate, but if not, it comes to much the same thing) Trying to Explain Reality to F***wits. They are even more scathing than most of us are about being expected to describe ourselves as "cis-women", and good luck to them!

Mu My

Mu understanding of the term is this:

TERF an acronym for Trans exclusive reactionary feminist, a prejorative expression often used against lesbians because they don't regard transwomen as prospective sexual partners. Also used against women who have concerns about those identifying as women using female only spaces.

Now I m lost, what the heck’s terf I must live in a very boring part of the world not only have I never come across anybody telling me off for saying he or she but I ve never been called Cis or terf
I have been called a snowflake though does that count ?

I don't think it's sexist MawB, given I've seen such statements aimed at so called "Terfs" "some women have penises get over it" whilst the word "bollocks" wasn't included, I suppose one could assume those ladies still had their balls with their other dangly bit, so I'm thinking bollocks shouldn't just apply to men anymore, or at least that's what we've been told.

Where's bearded Dave who identifies as a woman between 6 am and 6 pm when you need a bit of clarification!

For those who enjoy knowing the derivations of words - the term 'cis' is Latin for 'on this side of something' - the opposite of 'trans' (on the far side of something) and is used, for example, to describe Cisalpine Gaul (Gaul on the near side of the Alps) and Transalpine Gaul (Gaul on the far side of the Alps), Transylvania is land on the other side of the forest, etc.

I agree with Rocknroll5me on all counts; which is why I have such serious reservations about children and young people being 'allowed' to transition, despite the fact that I generally hold very liberal (small 'l') values, and why I object to men self defining as female and being allowed in women's spaces on demand.

On here (and it would be the same elsewhere, except that it is not a topic that comes up for me very often offline), this is assumed to mean that I (or others holding similar views) am right wing, bigoted and transphobic, which is entirely untrue, and shows the prejudice of the trans lobby.

I have, however, seen friends of mine being hassled because they object more vocally, and find it quite scary that the views of a relatively small number of people are being forced into the mainstream, with cries of 'TERF' being used against anyone who doesn't share them.

All objections are rolled into one facile term, which takes no account of the nuances of people's opinions, which are not necessarily shared by all who have misgivings about parts of the trans agenda.

Ahhh let’s be sexist then MawB total and utter bxxxxxx

Is it sexist to refer to all that as a load of b*ll*cks?

I had to google CIS I ve never heard it used and no idea what it meant what a load of nonsense it’s not something I ll be using any time soon
I have no problem recognising that some people feel they are born in the wrong body (although I think there are also some attention seekers who have jumped on the band wagon) and they can take on what ever name or initials they want to, but I don’t need to publicly identify myself I know what I am and I don’t need to add any fancy initials to define me.
Anyone who is that unsure can take me out for a drink and find out ???

Rocknroll5me

Yes she should not be bullied or scared therefore she must be stupid to let down the women.
Jo Swinson is a politician...she should be used to being shouted at.

Why don't we matter to her?
She has made a big blunder.

the most vocal opponents of being labelled CISWOMEN are lesbians who are very happy being in the sex they were born into.
It seems to me that as soon as women get ahead, actually get power, get attention - men move in. So the gender discourse is now all on their side. Trans (a common prefix that everyone understands) as in transwomen (women born male) now have to stand equally amongst ciswomen (women born female) so as not to make transwomen feel 'othered' or not women.
Jo Swinson is stupid to let herself get intimidated to using such terms, although the trans lobby are very powerful and if you don't conform will yell TERF. (trans exclusionary radical feminists) like they did to Germain Greer who has been banned a speaking platform at many universities because of it. We must not be bullied or made scared by such tactics.

'Cis' gets my goat, too. How dare they redefine people without asking them if they want to be redefined?

why hasn't anyone pointed out to Jo Swinson how offensive that word is to women?

I despair how stupid politicians can be

I am absolutely not CIS.

My natal sex does not conform/match some man's definition of "girly" gender appearances and behaviours thank you very much!

And no that doesnt make me a transman either!

reading this Jo Swinson has just validated my decision to not vote Lib Dem not even tactically

If she doesn't support women now she never will.

Go Terribull you are so right.

Of course it's anyone's prerogative to redefine themselves, hence the "trans" (transitioning) Nevertheless most of us aren't in a state of flux and therefore wish to remain with the nouns that have defined us since the beginning of time, without additions thank you very much Jo Swinson and anyone else who subcribes to using this stupid unnecessary label and applying it to the whole of womenkind.

One of my work colleagues went on a training course which I think dealt with gender types (for want of a better phrase)

She came back with a list of all the names and explanations. It ran to about five sides of A4 paper.

I didn't even bother reading it, but my eyes were rolling furiously as my other colleagues were reading out some of the definitions.

Rocknroll5me - what?

@rock I kind of agree with you, although I hadn't given it much thought before.

So by removing difference, we are actually creating a situation whereby there's no room for conflict?

What I don't get is: why doesn't a move towards gender neutrality mean that there are fewer terms? Or no terms?

Surely the most effective way of making a person gender-neutral is by not asking the question?

(Although I think I know why we still do..).