To Believe the British Girl in Cyprus Version of Events

oldglimmer1 isn't it threatening to call someone a man hater or to allege that women are putting themselves forward and risk getting out of control. Doesn't that mean that someone will have to control them? Isn't that threatening?

Women are out of control. Whose control should they be under? They think they are invincible until they find out they are not. Nothing like the threat of gang rape to make women behave.

I can't see anything threatening in Davidh's post.

Maybe his opinion doesn't chime with others' , galaxy, but he has a right to an opinion and his holds as much water as anyone else's on here, don't you think?

Davidhs D you really know so little about police procedure?
Police in the UK are not allowed to question anyone without recording it. They are not allowed to question a person for 8 hours. They are not supposed to question someone without legal representation- these are regulations for everyone regardless of the crime. Not what happened in Cyprus.
As for women alleging rape this is Met procedure
Your dedicated officer

Your dedicated officer will be a single point of contact throughout the investigation.

They will explain to you what is happening at each step, answer any questions you might have and, with your consent, refer you through to specialist support advocacy services, such as Independent Sexual Violence Advisers.

One of the officer’s first tasks will be to take a detailed account from you. This can be in the form of a written statement or a visually recorded interview. They’ll talk through both of these options with you beforehand.

As a general rule, your officer will keep you informed of how the investigation is going at least every 28 days or sooner if there are any updates.

Your officer in the case

An officer in the case (OIC) is a plain clothes constable who has specialist training in the investigation of rape and serious sexual offences.

An OIC will be assigned to your case with the responsibility of investigating and securing all the evidence.

One such task will be to take a statement from the ‘first complainant’. This is the first person to whom you disclosed what happened to you – usually a friend, colleague, police officer or someone else that you trust
This is how victims should be treated.
Did you read my previous post? Cyprus have signed up to the EU directive that rape is regarded as any case of non-consensual sex, regardless of if there is violence or not.
I don't hate men. I have three sons. However all of them know the difference between consensual and non-consensual sex. It's a pity you don't. And sorry your attitude belongs in the 1950s.
Things have moved on. Most men have changed.
I can't believe that anyone still thinks that women are somehow "asking for it"
And yes the UK conviction rate for rape is apalling possibly because people like you are allowed to sit on juries.

David do you understand how threatening you sound.

Miscarriage for whom, though, gracesgran?

I don't know and can't know oldgimmer1 any more than any of us can. That is basically what I am saying. It seems as though it should go to a higher court for everyone's sake.

In these sorts of cases it always seems to be the girls life that is laid bare for everyone to pick over.

We can't possibly know what really happened, but there certainly seems to be enough cause for concern to justify calls for further investigation.

Trisher the conviction rate in the UK at present is woefully low You know that, so don’t try to demonize me I’m just trying to find out what happened rather than sensational reports we are seeing today. Maybe you’re a man hater and everything men do is wrong or bad.

They certainly would not have had video, or Social Media or DNA evidence in the 1950s so don’t be ridiculious. The Cypriot police seem to have done pretty much the same as the UK would have done and even the UK police are not perfect we have seen that.
I don’t know the rights and wrongs but the chances of getting a conviction in Cyprus is low.

A great many young men have an appalling attitude to women, some of the antics I have seen are disgusting but the women are putting themselves forward and are at risk of getting out of control. They think they are independent and invincible until they find out they’re not.

A report in the Daily Mail (I know, I know) showed the room where the alleged attack took place.

It was tiny, with three mattresses taking up most of the floorspace.

I can't imagine how more than s couple of people could actually have been in in at the same time!

Yes I think it is much worse for young women nowadays terribull.

Apparently of the 12 boys 3 admitted to having consensual sex with the girl

A report I read would seem to corroborate that number. Swabs that were taken apparently revealed semen from four people, presumably those three and the one who was with her when the gang allegedly burst in.

Davidhs I have no doubt the Israeli media machine is trying its best to get enough out there to turn the tide of public opinion.
Were the boys held for 8 hours and questioned without legal representation?
Where is the medical evidence that they were beaten?
Is beating someone really a "robust" investigation?
Really I have never read a more un-enlightened post. It's ridiculous to even try and compare this with UK investigations, unless you are comparing it to a 1950s case.

I blame the universal use of pornography it's had a most pernicious effect it seems

All this using phones to film forced sex acts is beyond appalling We've had many threads about how unsavoury it could be for young women in the '70s, rife with misogyny (my youthful years) and it was at times, but quite honestly what young women have to put up with now is far worse

From several sources

Apparently of the 12 boys 3 admitted to having consensual sex with the girl and some videoing took place and was shared online, there was no evidence against the other 9. The boys claim to have been beaten by the police, so the investigation seems to have bee robust.

So it was the usual story of her word against their’s, if it had happened in the UK it would it have gone to court. Maybe, but it would be very difficult to get a conviction in those circumstances.

As for her retracting the allegation, she should have had a lawyer present, who may have advised her not to, then there would have been a rape trial, very doubtful outcome.

I was married to a Greek Cypriot and I quickly learnt that there is one rule for the men and another for the women in every part of life.

You'd expect reports of bruising maybe, and fingernail scrapings at least.

I read that there was bruising but that the judge said she could have bruised her legs bumping into furniture. Don't know how accurate that report is.

Actually there is some evidence that she had injuries and that 4 men had sex with her. They should at least have been DNAd for ID. From the telegraph
The woman claims she then fled the hotel semi-naked to friends who took her to a medical clinic. She was examined by doctors before the police were called.

The handling of the case has been questioned by experts and has raised serious questions about the rigour of both the police and judiciary in investigating the woman’s allegation.

Marios Matsakis, a forensic pathologist, testified in court that he had found DNA traces from four men on the woman.

He claimed the rape kit exam presented in court as evidence was incomplete. ''There was no examination of the teenager's clothing which is surprising,” Mr Matsakis said.

“The woman was obviously in bad shape with a large number of external injuries, most of which were recent,” he added.
A least then enough to have held the men, instead they questioned the woman without any legal representation.

Miscarriage for whom, though, gracesgran?

For the girl, who says she was coerced into making a false statement, or for the men, who may have been wrongly accused of rape?

The case may well go in the girl's favour, but I don't think that'll be the end of the matter.

As I understand, she wants to "clear her name". That'll mean charging the men and convicting them. Doubt that's going to happen!

I hope all those, who think this girl has been badly treated, are going to boycott Cyprus for holidays and encourage others to do so. We may not be able to help this particular girl but we can change our future tourist behaviour. If Cyprus suddenly had a major decrease in holidays booked by the British and others, they may reconsider their behaviour.

Also, these types of resorts, which do encourage young groups of holiday makers, need to change with stricter rules on alcohol consumption bought in, as over consumption encourages this sort of behaviour from both men and women or whatever they want to call themselves these days.

I think she might have had consensual sex with one of the men, then the rest of them raped her. How frightening and harrowing that must have been. You would never get over that.

As I said, we cannot decide the truth. We are not being presented with proper evidence as you would be in a court. Hopefully, it will go to the ECHR and that will show a miscarriage and the facts will come out.

I think it's very sad that this young woman didn't value herself and keep herself safe. Really sad.

And as for the young men and their behaviour, what a messed up attitude.

Also I think we are being very naive if we think this is only in countries such as Cyprus. Under no circumstances would I report a sexual assault in this country I have seen the way women who have reported have been treated.