I am scared for my grandchildren

I would be terrified. And if I was their mother I’d tell him absolutely not. Never in a million years.

but after all the bad things I've heard about how muslim men treat young white women and the horror stories about them running away with womens children. Are you talking about Pakistan or the UK? What are the sources for these rumours? Are they good reliable trusted sources or whispers that go around?

Thousands and thousands of families of Pakistani heritage travel between the UK and Pakistan every year and travel back. families still intact. They have wonderful holidays with their families who are delighted to see them.

Look at it from the otherside. If you were Pakistani would you want your family coming to Britain? Gangs of youths roam our city streets, stabbing and killing people whether they know them or not. In some towns, gangs of men who share their ethnicity, are going around grabbing young girls and raping them and holding them in bondage. Many of our towns are ruled by drug gangs who again kidnap and force children to live in terrible conditions and act as couriers and runners for drugs. - I exagerate of course, but rumours like this feed on themselves.

norahbennette you are living in a country every bit as lawless and violent as Pakistan, if you believe everything these who know nothing about it tell you. Exactly the same applies to Pakistan. No, the country is not totally violence free, but what country is. If your daughter follows local customs for dress, she will not attact undue attention and as for young Pakistani/ British female children being kidnapped. List some specific cases where girls as young 10 and 7 have been kidnapped. Or is all just racist rumour?

These children, assuming your daughter and her husband have British passports, are British citizens and the idea that children like this could be kidnapped and it not hit the headlines is silly.

Unless you have very specific evidence that your SiL is planning to sell the children into slavery, in which case you should go to the police, your post sounds out and out racist, or if not you sound very credulous, prepared to believe anything anyone tells you about Pakistan and Pakistanis.

Life must be very difficult for your daughter, happily married and with 3 children to have a mother who is ignorant and racist and has no trust in her own daughter and presumably refuses to take her SiL into her home and heart because he is a foreigner and coloured. How do I know that? My daughter married a Pakistani fellow last year, she already had 2 children (girls) with him and is now pregnant with the 3rd Anyone else would have described him as ^ my SiL^

I would think that your daughter knows this man well now as their eldest child is 10 Norabennette and obviously trusts him. I do understand why you may be concerned after all the problems in Rotherham etc. Of course all Pakistani men are not bad in the same way as all white men are not good. I have to say the offer of a new car did raise a concern for me.
Try and get more information as MissA said and talk to your daughter about keeping safe but don't alienate her. I hope everything works out ok .

I've read the OP and many of the comment with incredulity. MOnica's response reassured me that not everyone sees Pakistani Muslims as dangerous.
Most people of Pakistani origin will try and visit their families in their homeland, even if they themselves were born in the UK. It's what people do, like Polish, Ukrainians, Italians, Greeks, French etc - people seek to see the country their family originated from.
The OP's daughter is in what she clearly sees as a life long relationship. In the absence of evidence that this man is abusive or plans to marry one of his daughter's off during the visit to Pakistan, it seems unnecessarily alarmist to take these views. It's also something that could increase any rift between grandmother, her daughter and grandchildren. These children, like most children, probably love their father very much and will be excited about visiting his family of origin.

Presumably this man wants to take his daughters to meet his family and see some of their heritage. It’s a bit of a leap of the imagination to compare this with Rotherham gangs who didn’t kidnap very young girls but targeted vulnerable teenagers who were in the care system or came from chaotic families. This is not behaviour that is seen in Pakistan per se. FGM is not common in Pakistan - it is more in certain African countries. There is some evidence that arranged or forced marriages take place in some communities but since this man has married a non Muslim woman it seems he is not in that mindset himself. I would make sure you are given all the details of their travel arrangements - flight numbers and dates both outward and return, addresses of where they will be staying and exact contact details. Make sure your daughter has these details and a phone that works and details of the British consulate. You can’t stop them going or worrying, but you can have some peace of mind if you know their whereabouts.

My son married an American from LA 7 years ago (think Harry and Meghan!) and although I’ve had a reasonable relationship with my DIL things have come to a head after we visited over Xmas. They’re both totally self centred (he’s got much worse since being married) and spend their life in pursuit of money - they earn a fortune but live very frugally. We’ve trodden on eggshells for 7 years for fear of upsetting her but now i appear to have done it! When we were there, she would sometimes speak and sometimes not, she’d make herself meals and let us make our own - even my son had to - it felt like we were tolerated but not welcome - it was awful and we couldn’t wait to leave. And weirdly I’ve never ever heard her call is by my or my husbands name - think she clearly dislikes us but puts up with us for my sons sake. We did lots while we were there bought food etc, helped with the housework and the grandkids - 3 and 6 months - but when we left she didn’t even get up out of her chair to say goodbye - it was really odd. By the time we left, it felt like we were existing in the same space but worlds apart. Since we’ve been back, my son said something about not sharing any photos of them with people or on social media - I pointed out that my DIL’s brother plasters photos of their kids all over social media and it felt like double standards - and I was fed up with all the rules they impose - there were lots of rule when we visited! Anyway suffice to say I vented 7 years of pent up anger and frustration and let rip. I’ve gone completely mad (not like me at all - hubby’s totally shocked) and deleted myself from all our family chat groups (DIL also has even though my argument was with my son!) and have vowed to have nothing to do with them - honestly I’m absolutely fuming still and this happened last week. Hubby’s still in contact but I’m so angry I feel like I don’t ever want to visit or have anything to do with them again because I’m fed up of the treatment so making a stand.

Sbhrt21, there's absolutely no reason why we'd get along with our inlaws any more than a random stranger.

Perhaps it was just your son's idea to invite you at Christmas. (as it seems you were merely tolerated by DIL) Most of us would be more hospitable (even merely out of politeness) so maybe DIL was making a point/protesting - to ensure there's no repeat visits. Mission accomplished!

I can understand your concern as a Mother, but after 10 years I do not think you should worry.
I do not think you are Ignorant and racist like another poster said, I just feel you have seen and heard alot in the media and it plays on your mind.
I am concerned about what he said about buying a car, can you elaborate on that, was it a bribe, or was he being kind to you?

The Op may be ignorant of the Pakistani culture - but that doesn't negate her fear. I know personally of oe cas and hear of others where seemingly westernised, moderate men suddenly turn all fundamental. particularly when egged on by famly members, and a visit/holiday to Pakistan often is the start. I agree, that if there have been no real problems over the last 10 years, then it is unlikely to be a problem now, but I do sympathise with her fears. i don't actually think it is unreasonable for the OP to suggest she join them. If there is really no problem then his family would/should be more than welcoming, as is part of the culture. The elder daughter is still too young for an arranged marriage to be likely. Hopefully it really is just a family visit - but please d on't dismiss the OP's fears as racist.

‘I’m not racist, but...’.

Sorry to disagree with many here, but it’s perfectly possible not to be a racist but still have concerns about cultural practices among other ethnic groups. Especially if they might possibly affect those dear to you.
E.g. FGM, forced marriages, child marriages, etc.
Not to mention the inferior legal status of women in some cultures.
I say this as someone who lived very happily for 13 years in Muslim countries.

If your grandchildren are travelling on British passports you can contact the British Embassy or foreign office if you felt they were in any danger.
It is always wise to have a family code word that could be spoken/emailed or text you if anyone felt they were in danger.
For example “ don’t forget to feed the cat”.
Try not to worry, also ask them all to photocopy or scan their passports and keep a copy, this is so useful for them if they were lost or stolen and would give you some peace of mind.

I see it the same as "no offence but" we all know everyone is then about to say something offensive. So just no need to say it. Muslims are 1 7th of the worlds population or something like that, they are good people and the stereotypes are wrong and unfair. We all need to be aware of any inherant risk in any situation but I am sure her daughter isn't going to put her children in danger x

Op ,

So your sil knows you dont trust him at all. In fact, you consider him dangerous.

Watch out with burning your bridge with your dd and gc.

I wouldnt want a person like you around my family. If you do not support us, you are out.

Think about it, if he really wants to kidnap his family, he is not going to tell you.

I would keep quiet if I were you tbh.
You may well be putting ideas into his head.
You have to trust your daughter to do what`s best for the family.
Iv`e only heard horror stories about fathers taking the dc`s away from the mothers whilst separated/divorced.
Try not to worry and more importantly be supportive to your DD.
Youv`e said your peace so now try and keep the peace.

I would suggest looking on the Reunite website, theres lots of useful advice on there.

Also, Pakistan became a signatory of the Hague Convention in 2017 so is not the 'safe haven' for abducted children as it used to be.

Wishing you and your family all the best

I can see why the OP is apprehensive especially if she has read the book "Not without my daughter" although I would think it highly unlikely to happen - it -has- done and that is probably why she is feeling nervous about it. (nothing to do with general crime etc)

There are just one or two points though that sound a bit odd- The car business? What did he actually say... "I will buy you a car if you stop worrying about me taking the family to Pakistan?"

Secondly you say your daughter is pregnant? How far is she? Does she know if it is a boy? Am just musing over some things I have come across (in my chequered career) A lot of Asians return home for the birth of their babies but then have difficulty getting passports for the child to return home depending on where baby born. (Not saying this is in his mind at all...just pondering why he wants to go when his wife is pregnant and not wait until after?)

Thirdly would he have welcomed you on any other holiday but just not to Pakistan? I mean how well do you get on normally?

But I guess there is absolutely nothing you can do about it except wish them a good holiday... Am sure it will turn out ok.

I would be worried too, especially as he doesn`t want you to go with them.

Fear mongering won't help OP at all! I remember a period where a lot of people were too afraid to travel to certain places because of terror attacks. Statistically you have more chance of being struck by lightning than being in a place where a terrorist attack happens. Unhealthy elements in any culture/religion etc want to turn us against each other. Don't do their job for them x

As far as I know, FGM is not practiced n Pakistan. It takes place mostly in a swathe of Africa and is not religion based. Many girls from Somalia have been " cut". So going to Pakistan the girls should be safe from FGM.

Surely your daughter knows her husband better than you do and is not concerned.

If they did not have a good marriage then I could see a cause for concern otherwise I do not know what you are worried about, maybe his family think that you are trying to keep the children away from them.

Men and Muslims are not second class parents.

I would be worried too, especially as he doesn`t want you to go with them.

Why on earth would anybody want to take a family vacation with somebody who so strongly dislikes them?

This alone does not mean he has ulterior motives. It means he wants to enjoy his family vacation

When a government issues warnings to exercise caution when traveling to specific areas or suggests avoiding them altogether, it's prudent and practical to at least take their forewarning into consideration-

There's nothing remotely racist or cruel about providing travel information unless of course the information is false or intentionally misleading-

Turn the tables- At least once in your parenting experience you were in a similar situation, when your concerns for one of your own ran so deep it was palpable-

It isn't your child that's about to embark on a journey that has you reeling inside with concern- It's hers-

I am not scared of the fact that he is a different colour! I couldn't care less... my problem is with the culture that he comes from.
You might not know about the systematic abuse of young girls here in the north of england by MUSLIM rape gangs but it certainly isn't some media scam. Whole gangs of muslim men have been prosecuted for using and abusing very young girls and it was ignored for years by the police because they didn't want to be called racist. This isn't some conspiracy theory, it really has happened. They believe thousands of girls have been victims.
Now I'm not claiming to be some expert on islam... but I have to ask the question Is it really safe for my girls to go off on this trip?

You know that not all Muslims are from the same area, right?

Some Muslim men might be horrible. Same as any other religion.

Are all priests rapists too?

I never said all were bad but I think it's perfectly reasonable to be scared when so Muslims have committed such horrible crimes in my country. That's before we even begin to mention the terrorist attacks.

If there were priests in my home town being prosecuted for raping children, I certainly wouldn't let one of my grandchildren be around them!