My British Values. (You can't just hi-ack them Leavers)

It should have been wasn't, Doctor Who is a better woman than me and hasn't even been one very long lol x

I do love a bit of Dr Who!

I wonder why there should be "British values". Aren't 'values' a personal thing?

I think you are right lucywinter, but British Values are part of the national curriculum now!

As this country has been built on Christian values over the last few hundred years I would say that they are British values. ?

The "British Values" of the National Curriculum were made up by T Blair and Labour whilst in office and put onto the curriculum with Citizenship ( even though as this country is a monarchy we are technically subjects of the Queen).

But any values, be they Christian, another religion or secular need to be shared by people to have any meaning. The question properly to be asked is - do we as a society really share those "Values" or are they only embraced by a few. If the latter, what values, if any, are shared widely in Britain? Or are we now so diverse we cannot have an over arching set of values? Is recognition of diversity our only value even?

Or are we now so diverse we cannot have an over arching set of values? Is recognition of diversity our only value even

What does that even mean?

I recognise when I am in a room of people who share my values and it has nothing to do with their race, nationality or religion.

And it was actually Michael Gove as part of the coalition government who introduced British Values as part of the curriculum

I recognise when I am in a room of people who share my values and it has nothing to do with their race, nationality or religion

How do you really know they share your values? Or are they just paying lip service, remaining quiet, nodding so as to be polite? I would contend none of us can really know what another thinks, even when we belong to the same clubs, pressure groups or sub cultures.

Actually Naz I was being taught NC values long before Grove. It was Blair and the rights and responsibilities speech.

What does that even mean?

If you really need to ask that, I suspect you are not up to the debate. But I think its your way of click baiting. You have a reputation for it somewhat.

British Values were first defined by the govt as part of Prevent, then introduced to schools via Gove. First a requirement for free schools and academies, then extended to all. All via the coalition government. There’s been a lot written on it because it was specifically introduced to decrease radicalism. I did Prevent training last week bizarrely, and they definitely mentioned British Values as part of that.

I spend a lot of time thinking about values as I am involved in values based recruitment (& you don’t ask ‘what are your values’ when trying to ascertain what they are).

And I was genuinely interested in what you meant by being too diverse to share values as I don’t think they’re related to nationality, upbringing, race etc at all. I was curious and interested by what you meant.

Although we’re not recruiting on British Values - just on a certain set of values. Maybe that’s why I don’t see them as related to nationality or religion.

There’s quite a lot written about the problems of teaching British Values. Interesting reading. They don’t seem to be structured around religion or Britishness as such (although can be interpreted in such a way), but I am struggling to get to the essence of what they are (from the government’s point of view). Maybe that’s because they have evolved from Prevent - which has a bit of an emphasis on what British values are not, I guess.

Interesting OP - I shall be musing all day.

Does somebody in Dover have different values from somebody in Calais?

I think what bothered me when I started this thread was the way leavers were celebrating and proclaiming a return to Britain and British values, which set me thinking about what I saw as British values. I realised that what I see as those values are based on some things which are threatened by leaving the EU. They are I suppose based on the great reformers such as Thomas Paine and Mary Woolstencraft. I just hope the legislation will adapt but I find the refugee and the situation for EU citizens very worrying.

Thank you for that Trisher because in fact you are not looking at British Values in the overarching sense or even the NC sense at all. You are looking for a specific set of ideals that you hold and feel are threatened . That I can understand.

But that was not what I was about to put my cap into the ring to discuss, so I will leave it now...... except to say, if tolerance is a British value, how do we reconcile our ability to tolerate different beliefs when those beliefs may conflict?
Whose must we respect in the end?

aprilrose I suppose you can only stick with Evelyn Beatrice Hall "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." funny how women often get everything right,

LOL Trisher - I absolutely agree, but interestingly I got well and truly hounded by remain minded posters on a politics thread last night for saying precisely what you have just said there.

I am leaving this now. Have a good day

....but even when women get them right what they say will still be attributed to a man ( Voltaire in this case.)
‘Twas ever thus.

OH! lemon thanks! We agree on something!!!! Do you think we should have a celebration day on GN?

Why not?

There are not many genuine refugees who come to this country, in my opinion, because GENUINE refugees would always claim asylum in the FIRST safe country they came to (as it states in International Law). Genuine refugees do not cross through many safe countries until they get to the one they prefer or wash up on UK shores or arrive hidden in lorries illegally, having lived in France ( a safe country)beforehand for ages, having been able to travel unchallenged through other EU countries because of Schengen.

Also, if people are desperate to be with family they have been parted from they would agree to return to their own country to be with them or, better still, not abandon them in the first place! The people who arrive here illegally, mostly fit young men, are chancers who have abandoned their own country because they can't be bothered to work to make it a better place to live in and because they think they can get something for free from another country, where its people have worked hard to make it a better place for centuries.

Also, I do not believe that all people should be treated equally. Certainly, criminals and terrorists should not be treated as if they are wonderful law abiding citizens and released from prison and allowed to walk amongst us, as has been proved with recent events. If British values are important, they should be held by ALL those living here, not just by the do-gooder PC Remainer lot. British values do not mean being a sucker for a sob story!!

I've thought of another 'British' value - care and concern for the community in which each of us lives.
But this was used here (NE) as reason for voting Leave.
ie support of small, local communities is more important than larger, national and international ones.

quizqueen, what an interesting assessment of such a potentially fraught and complex area as refugees coming to the UK. Can you tell us a little more about your sources please?

Genuine refugees don't always ask for asylum in the first 'safe' country for a variety of reasons. For example it may be that they don't feel they're far enough away from the danger they're running from or they may speak the language of another country or have family already there who will help to look after them. I taught many refugee children and their background stories were heart breaking. I have scars on my arm and one child thought I'd been attacked with a machete. Another had been forced to watch as her mother was repeatedly raped. And yet another was forced to watch his father being tortured. None of these families sort refuge in the first 'safe' country because they didn't feel safe enough. They needed to put more distance between themselves and their abusers which imo is understandable when you're running for your life.