Veganism

I apologise. I’ve expressed myself badly. My concern was about the effect of the growth of the vegan industry than poking the finger in a “You are a vegan” sort of way. I agree with your point about companies wanting to make money. But they can only do that if people don’t think hard about where all there food comes from, not just animal products. And take responsibility, maybe by going without themselves.

In my birth mothers country, when I visited some 10 years ago, avocado was a “free” food, picked from the roadside or available in the market for almost nothing and would form the main part of one of the two meals that we ate each day. Very poor people lived on it and other bits and pieces they could put together. It was also the main weaning food.

Now even the roadsides are harvested and it is unavailable or only at western prices.

In addition, land that used to grow grow staple root crops has been turned over to crops that will fetch a high price in the west, such as quinoa and other specialist grains. This is directly driven by the demands of the vegan market.

So I think I would say avoid almost everything that has been , up till now, a staple diet of people elsewhere in the world, unless you know for certain there’s a surplus. I can’t say just eat what we grow here because we don’t grow enough.

I’m sorry, I don’t realky see how cheap clothes has an impact on people going hungry because we are taking their food.....

Actually I'm sorry Eglantine but I don't think there's a correlation between the craze for avocado and quinoa and vegans, it's about fancy food trending amongst young people, especially travellers. Try reading this:

www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190304-how-avocados-and-kale-became-so-popular.

There are many other articles on the history of food and its marketing if you look on Google, none of them mention veganism, all of them talk about trends in food and marketing.

My phone has gone haywire and I can't copy any other lonks at the moment but try asking 'why have avocado's become so popular'. I'm sorry for your home country but it's probably also too much travel. I remember coming home from France in the 1980s loaded up with food, wine and delicacies which can now be found in any British supermarket.

Well I think the food trending is towards a vegan diet, especially amongst the young.

I’m not sure I get the travel comment. Do you mean people going there and eating the food? It is being exported to the west, not consumed in situ.

I think Ive got the answer to my original question anyway.

Re travel, people travel more. So even more people travel to specific places, they try local cuisine. They bring it back. Companies start importing it.

Not to do with vegans.

I’m not vegan, or even vegetarian. I eat avocado and quinoa with my carnivore diet.

It is interesting that quinoa, a good source of plant protein, can be grown in the UK, and enterprising farmers are growing it here. I certainly don’t agree with exploiting poor people, as the west has done for centuries. Yes it is important to keep these issues to the fore.

A farming friend has been growing quinoa quite successfully in the UK. The issue arises in that British quinoa has a higher shelf price than imported because it costs more to grow. Will people be prepared to pay that extra price?

According to the Guardian the UK has the third cheapest food in the world with only the US and Singapore being cheaper. I think with our demand for cheap food, someone, somewhere always ends up paying for that low price.

Why don't people understand that the ideas they have in their heads come from the age they are, the community they grew up in and reside in now but the big, wide world out there is changing all the time and they are basically out of touch.

So, here's an article about Instagram which is the big thing now amongst the younger generation, it points out how Instagram which allows people to upload photos and chat about their lifestyle has led the way in promoting new food ideas as well as fashion trends of all sorts. The younger generation get all their information from social media now, from Instagram, YouTube, and other platforms which are full of leaders of their generation who blog and lead on ideas and trends.

Google shows that searches related to veganism have been growing since 2012. I would suggest that the peasants who live in places where avocados and quinoa etc grow were losing out to the market well before veganism appeared on the scene. I'm afraid the likes of Google are more reliable than the conclusions one can jump to from everyday observations.

As summerlove says, people these days travel all the time and everywhere and they want at home what they found on holiday and lo and behold the market opens. A lot of people think British food and menus are boring you know, and that is unlikely to change in the future.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/veganism-rise-uk-why-instagram-mainstream-plant-based-diet-vegans-popularity-a8296426.html

Ah, peasants.

Well we needn’t worry about them then.......

Irony is lost on many....

I guess you had to say peasants because you can’t use the n word any more.

I don’t think you were ironic. More a Freudian slip.......

Oh for heaven's sake, the n word as you call it, which clearly triggered something in you or you wouldn't have remembered it came from my childhood in Brixton, South London where it was everyday parlance. Not for me a nice little middle class upbringing. Just possibly you might have noticed that I described a card frequently seen in those days stating 'no blacks and no Irish', two bands of people equally discriminated against. For me, calling out discrimination involves using the real words because then they lose their power. All us peasants have been shat upon by capitalism, by the ruling classes and by invaders and colonisers. And you know what those like to do? Encourage the underdogs to fight amongst themselves because it stops them seeing the bigger picture.

Hate vegans if that satisfies you but it isn't even half the picture.

It doesn’t surprise me that you used abusive terms for black peoples as your everyday parlance.

It doesn’t surprise me at all.....

I like meat but then I also like vegetables, fruit, pulses, nuts and dairy products. I am an omnivore because I choose to be one. That said I have no problem with anyone who chooses not to eat the same way that I do. Why then do a minority of vegetarians and vegans feel the need to criticise and condemn me for my choices? I'm not talking about Gransnet but the world in general.

Eglantine you are clearly determined to hear what you want to hear, stop bullying me because it won't work. You said you wanted to discuss veganism, try doing that.

I think it's tribalism vampirequeen, it used to be the case that vegetarians were in a minority and felt impinged upon, vegans too. Closing ranks and criticising the other is a defence. You could try seeing it as smokers vs non smokers and choose to let it go. The Times they are a changing.

You let your temper lead you and show you for what you really are.

I’m just “a peasant (along with the rest of my family who come from places where avocados and quinoa grow”

Your contempt for us is pretty clear.

Bet you’ll tell me to go back where I came from next.

Do tell a little more Eglantine, the whole story, eh? Just so we know?

You're own prejudices have led you to make assumptions, you have no idea what you are talking about and you don't bother to read others lists either. Do you really want to discuss veganism or use it to become a victim?

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Eglantine, no one said you were dumb. Why don't you calm down. I am Irish and proud of it. You clearly don't know, as so many English people don't know, the history of Ireland as a conquered and occupied state by the British. The Irish have been treated like dirt since the 17th century, when they came to England as immigrants, they were abused, imprisoned, called names and expected to do the worst jobs. As I think I've already said, the cards I mentioned above were aimed at Irish and black people, both were equally abused. The n word was all around but that doesn't mean I or my family used it. We were all in the same boat. The Irish were called thick Paddies or micks and also peasants. We all have our histories and we all have our vulnerabities.

I find it very upsetting that you choose to attack me instead of sticking to the subject of the thread and that you were also hanging on to a post you saw the other day from an entirely different thread that was my addition to list of things thankfully left behind. That is bullying so please now leave it.

The Low Carb diet trend has fired up the eating of Quinoa and Avocado more than veganism
Avocado's are a perfect food, no carbs, and quinoa is less carbs than most grains and has protein.

I'm vegan but never eat avocado, quinoa or kale myself. I just don't like them. Food (and health) fads create demands and temporary shortages all the time. The way we eat now, generally, is simply not sustainable in the near future. Markets will change, so I can't see how disruptions can be avoided.

Eglantine..your 'Yes massa' language is unnecessary. I'm descended from a variety of refugees who have come to the UK over the centuries. All of whom were starved, beaten or intimidated in some other way. None were welcome here but I don't use that to attack other posters.

They're growing quinoa in Ambridge!