Veganism

Bbarb I understand your concern. While worried about it you feel you cannot do anything like talking to the head etc, as it's up to her mum to see to it. Have you mentioned it to her mum and what's her opinion? Unfortunately us grandparents are powerless in most situations.

You need to verify this before you do anything. Not just hear say but directly from the school in terms of clarity of their policy.

Our local cricket club only serves vegan teas so that everybody can eat. What a lot of rubbish - people who choose not to eat something should look after themselves, not expect others to cater for them. My ex-husband was a diabetic and always checked what he couldn’t eat rather than say he should be catered for.

When my son started school the Headmistress spoke to all the parents at the first meeting, saying "If you don't believe everything your child tells you about us, we won't believe everything your child tells us about you".

I see nothing wrong with a child of any age showing empathy towards animals and I'm in favour of telling children what meat it is they are eating - beef = cow. Pork = pig. Why disguise it, I don't understand? If a child is intelligent enough to relate this to an animal with feelings then please educate yourself and look at other foods. This is an obviously intelligent and caring child - why not embrace that rather than see it as a problem?

As a child of the '60's we didn't have meat at every meal - there are so many other really splendid options available now why not try some?

I was from a farming community and during normal conversation with a girl in my class it became clear she did not realise where meat came from. Us farming yobs told her it involved killing animals, otherwise how else could you get it? She was 14 years old and was unaware of where food came from! I think she was also very upset, but really, we do all need to know what we're eating, and what is sustainable for the planet and our own wellbeing. I can't imagine teachers have time for specifically evangalizing about veganism, but they do have a duty to educate children so they can think for themselves.

Re-reading this - I have an apology to make and the title I used for this post. It does indeed sound as though I'm attacking the vegans, and really I'm not.
I was fretting about the child and should have used a different title.
I am still concerned about the ferocity of her feelings.

The thing that puzzles me about veganism is why do they have to have imitation animal products which must take a great deal of energy to produce? Why do they not eat vegetables in their natural state?

JillMay I am a strict vegetarian (no eggs or milk but I do eat cheese) and I agree with your question, in fact I don't fancy any of the imitation animal foodstuff!

I want to point out to posters supporting vegan diets that all is not well in that dept.
Almond milk being now so mass produces is causing the death of millions of bees. In the USA. especially

So you won't be doing the planet any good at all.

Better to have an all inclusive type of diet. Not all meat not all vegan.

Meals being sold as vegan are now being processed and not with always healthy ingredients.

I think children can be told where meat comes from in ann hoest way without the sentimental claptrap of dear "poor little animals"
I used to feel this way.
I felt it was wrong for me to eat "corpses"
But my daughter wanted meat so I always cooked it for her.
Even when I was a strict vegan.
Now I believe veganism is too restrictive. And that is all I will say apart from we cannot wipe out Bees. Without bees we have nothing. No crops, veggies or fruit.

If what you say is true, then it is absolutely outrageous. Children need a balanced diet, and as far as I can discern from reading up, veganism will not provide all the nutrients they need. The school has absolutely no right to indoctrinate them. The militant tendency of vegans have gone too far, and there will be a backlash soon.

I’m seriously thinking my next book should be a cookery one, on the theme of eating less meat.

The way forward for committed carnivores is to learn to eke out meat with lots more vegetables, so their consumption halves at least. We can make a chicken last 3-4 meals easily. More stews, add dumplings or a pie crust. Boil up bones for soup. Add in some textured protein.

Loads of simple ideas.

PS I would be very surprised to find that schools are forcing these ideas onto children. More likely that they are just putting forward different ways of eating.

Best to get your facts right before rushing in to complain.

Teachers are the experts in child education. Do you believe you know better than your doctor?

I'm afraid that these days one often does know better than one's doctor and if you're ill, you'd be wise to find out about it for yourself, few doctors are specialists!

It's interesting how much prejudice and intolerance there is in this thread against vegans coming from the perspective of meat eating being right! But meat eating is a choice like any other. It's what surrounds children growing up in most homes and if they are to make an informed choice then they need to hear the other side of the story.

As to vilifying a cricket club because they created a menu suitable for vegans. I expect you think the same applies to halal? The world has moved on you know and probably you blame the nasty old EU for tolerance of what do don't like but tolerance is required on all sides.

You can easily avoid almond milk ( which is still less environmentally destructive than cows milk) . The best plant milk is oat milk and is a crop we grow in the U.K. so choose fortified oat milk if you want to avoid dairy.

Neither doctors nor teachers know everything . Professional which makes professionals vastly better equipped than lay people to decide what is best to be in children's curriculums.

I understand parents' fears for their children's welfare and I hope the schools can allay these fears which for the most part are unnecessary as regards mainstream state schools in the UK

Professional people spend years learning both academically and practically

Yeh Oatly for me too!

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/science-environment-46654042
A comparison of different milks in terms of nutrition and environmental impact.

Population growth will slow down

ourworldindata.org/future-population-growth

Dear Barb, I’m sorry that your granddaughter was upset and hopefully she will feel happier soon and work out, with all your help, a healthy diet, vegan or otherwise.

These discussions about plant based diets etc are everywhere, not just at school, but also on tv, in newspapers, everywhere.

For example, I haven't eaten pork since I was 9 when I saw a TV documentary about a dear little pig and his life from birth to the abattoir, ghastly.

Pheonix - fab post, my view is that the industrialisation of food production is what is so dangerous and unpleasant for us all and the world and hideous for the animals concerned. And as for torturing and eating dogs, I have no words. ?

I taught in quite a few state schools for over 40 years, but never come across one incident of indoctrination.
Yes children should know where meat comes from. No, I would never have shown my (teenage) pupils scenes from an abattoir.
I'd expect the parent of any primary child having nightmares/uncontrolled sobbing for any reason to have mentioned it next day to the class teacher anyway.
I feel guilty as a veggie drinking cows' milk, as I know a cow should live to 20 years and that dairy cows often die at well under half that.
Finally I've eaten dozens of adult cricket teas. Around London area, it's a multicultural event, therefore I assume multi-faith. Making it vegan (especially no dairy, no meat/fish) sounds sensible to reduce waste. I used to have to find a minder who would check for meat/fish content for me!

I became a vegetarian over 50 years ago when I was a similar age to your granddaughter, after seeing a chicken being slaughtered. My mother was a meat and two veg cook and was horrified. Eventually she managed to give me potatoes and vegetables with grated cheese on top, egg and chips and beans on toast that sort of thing. I’ve only relatively recently become vegan and have found it so easy and wish I’d done it sooner.

Perhaps the lesson was merely teaching children where food comes from and your GD was previously unaware that meat comes from animals.

There was a survey recently of 5,000 children between the ages of 6 and 15 which showed 1 in 10 thought tomatoes grew underground, pasta came from cows and fish fingers were made of chicken!

A meat eater myself I am in favour of children being taught where food comes from - something I think those of us of our generation grew up knowing (although I would draw the line at showing a film of an abattoir!)

Processing plant milks cause more CO2 production than extensively reared dairy cows.

Vegans usually have problems with iron and vitB12 deficiencies if their diet is not very carefully planned.

Children's diets need additional careful planning. I would go and ask the school for their menus. These should be readily available as they have to be planned & submitted in advance.