Veganism

Me too, vegansrock same story. Veganism is so healthy once you've got your head around it too. There is solid evidence now about the connection between dairy and various cancers, especially breast cancer.

I have three veggie or vegan daughters, all very healthy and fit. Only one ever had antibiotics in childhood. It's not difficult, it's a perfectly sound choice.

Children should be protected from the extreme faith and value systems of adults. Using the state system which educates 93% of our children to indoctrinate them with whatever the latest fad or phase entails is an abuse of influence and power.

This is particularly true when food is concerned as frightening children into avoiding certain food groups like meat is damaging to their mental and physical health. Growing children need protein, iron and B vitamins which are very difficult to access in a vegan diet and there is a high link between veganism and depression, not to mention that much vegan food is highly processed and added to to make it palatable.

why shouldn't a cricket club make it easy for those catering by the default menu being vegan? They will have to cater for those with say coeliac or Crohn's, or those with a life-threatening allergy, a vegan meal should be suitable for most apart from those with medical needs, many cricket clubs in some parts of the country would need Halal and that should ensure that everyone can eat together, that they feel welcomed and accepted. And letting anyone with special needs know what is in the food is a basic humanitarian requirement so they can work out for themselves if they might suffer an anaphylactic shock
In days gone by ham sandwiches were so special that it was a matter of pride that you buried someone with ham
No one is going to become malnourished by eating a vegan meal once a week
In recent years some schools have hatched out chicks, and children have been told that they have been returned to the farm afterwards. Doing it on a personal scale this may be true, but in many cases, this is just not true, the cockerels are slaughtered, and the pullets too if no one comes forward to rescue them. IT is right to publicise to all the horrific conditions that factory-farmed hens are kept in, so that people know and opt for humanely reared chickens and ethically produced eggs.
In my experience, the people that just feed the vegetables to a vegetarian child living with them are the ones who would be to blame for not ensuring that they are well-nourished, in the same way, that they would be to blame if a child suffered because they would not adapt to a diet needed for medical reasons. I've heard of schools in the past giving children with coeliac or Crohn's food with ingredients that cause flare-ups, it's not the school that is up in the night with a child in pain, and they do not seem to realise that over the years all these flare-ups cause long-lasting problems
If you'd adapt your cooking for your grandma or father who suffers with indigestion if they eat a certain food item, why would you not adapt your cooking so that your child can eat things that will not harm them physically or upset them because of their principles
I'm personally not a vegan or a vegetarian and in fact the family do keep livestock in as humane a way as possible. I want to know that the animals who provide any animal products I do eat have suffered as little as possible. In our family in different generations, there are people who don't eat things for either health reasons or because the food makes them gag...I'd not deliberately serve a family member something that they did not like, would cause health problems or that they could not eat because of ethical reasons even if I didn't agree. But we've always managed to get everyone fed with things they will or can eat, without affecting diabetic aunt Annie or uncle dave with gout, or grandma who is up all night with indigestion if she eats xy or z and it's never been a problem. If you won't do that for your child that is being ageist and neglectful. Even the queen I undesetand lets hosts know what she doesn't eat and if she came to see you you'd ensure that you kept to her requirements. If I want to eat unethically produced items that would cause a family member to have an anaphylactic shock, or dripping sandwiches or bacon butties I can do that out of the home can't I or do it when the those who don't eat them aren't there
We used to have cookery classes in school, and we used to study nutrition, taking other considerations into account is just an offshoot of this surely

Children are indoctrinated by teachers. I can remember when my late husband was told by his five-year-old grandson that they all had to cheer when they heard the news that Mrs Thatcher had resigned!!! He wasn't a fan of Mrs Thatcher, but he said indoctrination of children by schools were being used in 1930s Germany. He was absolutely furious.

A diet of chicken nuggets, hot dogs, pepperoni pizza is extremely unhealthy and yet many children eat these sorts of meals all the time. Yet people still repeat the mantra that a vegan diet hasn’t enough protein etc. A vegan diet is less likely than many meat heavy diets to be full of processed food.

I wanted to add that I think @vegansrock has some excellent information.

And that "meat" isn't a food group. Protein is, which can be found in eggs, cheese, nuts, oats, vegetables.

Meaning of indoctrination : to often repeat an idea or belief to someone until they accept it without criticism or question.

I haven't read all 80 posts about this thread. Of those I have read, there are a lot of assumptions about this school and these GC.

Bbarb hasn't said if it is a primary or higher school. She hasn't said in what context this subject was brought into the lesson. Some GNs appear to be making assumptions about this.

Indoctrination may happen in certain schools. I haven't been into enough different schools to be bold enough to say "children are indoctrinated by teachers". Really - every teacher - lock, stock and barrel!

Of those schools I have been into and worked in, and there are many, I have come across indoctrination as in the meaning above. In fact the opposite. Teachers, cover all aspects of topics to develop and broaden children's knowledge.

Sometimes, the subject matter may not be of the teacher's belief but she/he still includes it in the discussions.

A food topic: List of people's different eating lifestyles - research and discuss/debate (older children). Write/draw a menu for people with different eating lifestyle (younger children). You wouldn't expect a child to draw a vegan menu without knowing what a vegan is and why they make this choice.

Missed an important word:

Of those schools I have been into and worked in, and there are many, I have never come across indoctrination as in the meaning above. In fact the opposite. Teachers, cover all aspects of topics to develop and broaden children's knowledge.

A film about an abattoir is a bit extreme, but it is the world we live, OP, and the world your granddaughter is growing up in. I'm not vegetarian myself but it is very upsetting and incongruent for a child that has been to be taught to be empathetic and kind to animals, to then be expected to turn a blind eye to cruelty.

I am a translator and am currently translating an article on pharmaceutical experiments on rats. It makes me want to opt out of all modern medicine.

Just to say that I hear quite often that teachers are ‘forcing’ beliefs on children. Everything from left wing ideas to how to vote and now this. I have only once ever heard anything like tho
Is (when a teacher was told not to give his opinion on brexit). Staff an give an opinion but are very careful not to impose or preach. You would be surprised though, the variety and depth of the things children say to each other. Perhaps, since veganism is on the rise, they are hearing this from other children?

My local pub recently had a function for 100 people with vegan food. The landlady asked if she should provide food for the non-vegans and was told not to do so as this would upset the vegans. All food had to be vegan, even for those non-vegans. I have no objections to people being vegan or whatever dietary wishes they have, but don't believe that they should push their views on others, but should accept that all people are different. To impose any personal views on schoolchildren is a no-no in my book. Teachers should inform not impose.

Sick to death of people pushing veganism. Do your own thing and mind your own business. ?

My daughter who was about 9 years old at the time came home from school one day announcing she was never eating meat again after listening to her teacher lecturing the class on the wonders of vegetarianism. She kept it up for quite some time until she became quite ill with vitamin B12 deficiency. She now eats a balanced diet including meats.I did blame that teacher though and felt she should have kept her opinions on meat eating to herself.

I’m not an avid meat-eater, never have been, (I remember as a child not being allowed to get down from the table until all my meat had been eaten - luckily, if I could slip it to him, my brother would wolf it down.) and we often eat vegetarian food. I usually make vegetarian choices when I’m out, as well.

Coincidentally, last night I was talking to a high-level academic in the field of nutrition. She has decades of experience and in her opinion, veganism is unsustainable, for the whole world. That’s not because of the diet itself, although she said it does take careful planning, but because eventually the soil will become degraded without being renewed by animal manure. It would mean using chemicals instead and planting GM crops along with pesticides to be able to grow enough for everyone.

I thought she was very interesting, it’s certainly made me think!

I always thought Meat-Free Monday was rather a daft idea. Surely that's the day you use up the rest of the Sunday roast? Wegetable Wednesday, now that would make more sense.

My daughter's partner has been vegan for a couple of years now but daughter and their child are staying with just vegetarian as they want their little girl to be sure to get the right vitamins for proper growth. Lack of vitamin A is a worry with being vegan. Me, I'm each to your own, whatever. We do eat less meat than we used to but my feeling is that it's intensive farming that is a problem, not small scale and caring.

Hi Barb if her parents have any nutritional concerns about your granddaughter following a plant based diet The Vegan Society can provide any information needed. They also help newbies with transitioning and planned menus. There is a great deal of information on the internet too.

Yes.. you are being unreasonable.
Do these children that happily tuck into ready meals think the fairys make them?.
That the cows pigs sheep goats chickens lay their heads willingly on a plate?
That the fluffy little lambs that people go aaahhh at in fields, would like all their legs please ? Does the child not think "leg of a lamb " relates directly with the fact that the fluffy little lamb had to die?.
If ther'e going to eat meat it's time the reality of the process was made clear..
Together with the nightmare of caged birds and the cruelty of the dairy industry.

Vivian123 I suppose it was OK for the non-vegans to be upset or do they not matter? As far as I am concerned anyone can eat what they like. Both vegans and non vegans should have been catered for at this function.

I think the issue here is not whether vegans or vegetarians are right or wrong, but what is actually being said in school! For the child to be upset to that extent maybe the o p should suggest that the childs parents make enquiries as to what actually was said.
As far as I’m concerned people can eat what they like. My daughter is vegetarian, her husband is not and their children have a mixed, balanced (as far as they will co-operate!) diet. What does upset me is people trying to force their views and opinions on other people. What you eat or don’t eat is a matter of personal choice. I hope Barb will let us know whether enquiries are in fact made.

I have to strongly disagree with Gagajo when she says children are moved from classroom to classroom and have lots of different teachers that isn’t the case at 9 years old. It doesn’t begin until secondary or senior school. I would be very concerned that this may well be a case of an over enthusiastic vegan teacher, which if that’s what she wants to do personally that’s her business but not to be showing videos of abattoirs. Head teacher should be made aware of this immediately and depending on outcome the governors or local education authority contacted.

Our local cricket club only serves vegan teas so that everybody can eat. What a lot of rubbish - people who choose not to eat something should look after themselves, not expect others to cater for them.

So, if people choose not to eat vegan, per your own words, they can choose to sort them selves out and not expect others to cater for them?

I don't find it surprising that a child of 8 finds the reality of meat production upsetting. I think she sounds a delightful and sensitive little girl. At this age, I think many children start to become aware of the fate of animals. At the same age, my grandson became quite upset and decided he would become a vegetarian after reading The Life of Pi. He stuck with it for quite a long tine and then his views changed a bit.
@vegansrock, @phoenix, you both make some very interesting and insightful observations through this thread. I'm far, far more concerned about the obesity crisis harming our children than whether they eat animal products.

The school where I am a governor had a vegetarian parent and a vegan teacher come into school and demonstrate how a vegetarian/vegan meal could be made from fresh food (and dried pulses). The only stipulation was that they were not allowed to give reasons why they thought being non vegan/vegetarian was wrong.
The pupils were interested to see recipes that didn’t involve ‘non-chicken nuggets’ taste cakes being made without eggs/milk and a quite delicious looking stew made without milk etc.
The pupils asked sensible questions like what is tofu and how is it made? How do you make custard? Can you still have chocolate milk shakes made of vegan stuff?
At the end of the morning I watched the children collecting their school dinner and was unsurprised by the number of pupils turning down vegetables and not collecting from the salad bar. There needs to be some more education about cultivation and preparation of vegan/vegetarian foods without the scare tactics apparently used in the earlier posts.

Sue Donim wrote:
"That’s not because of the diet itself, although she said it does take careful planning, but because eventually the soil will become degraded without being renewed by animal manure. "

Needs careful crop rotation such as planting nitrogen- fixing vegetation, and lime. Needs also care with ploughing so soil structure is maintained.

If meat animals are kept they must be regarded as luxury crops, and born, fattened, and killed at the farm so they experience least possible stress.
I suspect your informant was paid by the farming lobby.

Mollygo, no modern teacher uses "scare tactics" to teach anything.