Do we still set higher standards for women?

Grandad and Anniebach

Jennie Formby went to Bath High School for Girls then St Helen and St Katharine Boarding School. She obtained 10 'O' levels and 3 'A' levels which seems to me to be good results, although I don't know the grades.
Even if she just scraped them, she still passed.
I know that these days some pupils can obtain about 15 O levels and 10 A levels but for that time her results were pretty good!

Be a Lady illustrates how women can't ever get it right.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZPabO7fY-U&feature=youtu.be&has_verified=1&fbclid=IwAR0l6_Zi0BN0Kj9J1GpXnRjfXK9l56ov3r-YGKSxDOKc2MwcJqAkAB0Y5so

Warning - video quite explicit in places

It changes nothing for any forum member to enter a thread such as this and complain that men continue to dominate in this world. What is required is debate on how the above social attitudes can be changed, and in that, both genders are required to be involved in that debate if any change is ever to be brought about.. OBVIOUSLY

What changes things is the way people live their lives and challenge prevailing attitudes. So women working, and sharing the responsibility for supporting the family. Men sharing responsibility for their children. CHALLENGING in public and on a regular basis prevailing attitudes.

As a feminist, I have done all of those things all of my life. I remember challenging sexim in the classroom at the age of 11. A boy, achieving less than me, that assumed HE was superior and would get a higher grade.

It isn't just about women changing attitudes though. WHY do those women work part-time? Family needs obviously. Why don't their husbands work part time?

FYO,
The head of my GP practise works part-time as do all the other GPs there. The job is too much otherwise and he has a young son he wants to spend time with. (He has always been a forward thinking young man, from when he first joined the surgery, one of the reasons he is my GP of choice). He also has great 'soft' skills, probably the reason he has risen through the ranks so quickly.

As I have stated earlier in this thread, the Equality Act 2010 opened all doors for women to be in parity with men on all levels within our society.

However, as Galaxy so well outlined, attitudes within both genders has meant that those open doors have not been walked through by very many women due to long-standing and continuing social stances contained within both genders.

It changes nothing for any forum member to enter a thread such as this and complain that men continue to dominate in this world. What is required is debate on how the above social attitudes can be changed, and in that, both genders are required to be involved in that debate if any change is ever to be brought about.

The question to ask david is why this affects women more than men, it is not nature it is the way society is structured. Women dont choose to do less in fact they do more, it's just the work they do in undervalued and not seen as work.

Women are ascapable as men if they want to, in a great many cases they choose to do less. For example in my GP practice there’re are 10 partners the 3 men all work full time, only 1 woman does that, the others work one shift to fit in with other commitments. That follows through many professions, a lot of women do 3 days many do school hours to fit in.

There are of course older women who want to, or need to, do full time work, many don’t, whereas most men choose to have full time work if they can. It’s about work life balance, although I do know a few cases where the man is the part timer the vast majority are women. A good proportion of those work mainly for the social aspect, rather than paying the rent.

I agree with the piece you read, Galaxy. Society needs to shift their attitudes. Women are just as capable.

On a personal level (obviously, I can't speak for all men or women), I have been MUCH more capable than any of my partners. TBH, they have been a bit wimpy when it came to rising to a challenge/change. Whereas I love it and embrace it, still at my great age now.

It may have been that way once (part time work, etc, etc) but I would argue it isn't anymore.

I outearned by ex husband. He EXPECTED me to be the one to take time off when child was sick etc. I corrected him. We took it in turns. Two parents. Two responsible adults.

Assuming it is 'natural' that women do those things just because they are the ones that are pregnant are what continue the attitudes that women have natural aptitude. We don't. It's socialisation.

Galaxy
We know why it affects women more, women are usually the natural carer in any relationship, someone has to pick the kids up from school or take a day off when they are ill. Men could do it more but it is not expected that they do, the same applies when caring for an elderly parent.
It is also a fact that when children have left home a high proportion of women work part time, which leaves them time to take care of house, home and the many other tasks that need doing.

Grandad 1943...
I actually wasn't moaning. I was just saying what I believe to be true. The fact that you don't agree with me doesn't make my comment a moan.

I think it's at such an early stage but it will be interesting to see how shared parental leave impacts on this but I dont think the take up of this is high.

Galaxy, I one hundred percent agree with the substance of your post @20:49 today. I have long believed that maturity leave does impact on the psychological aspect of it being subconsciously felt that children are the primarily the responsibility of women for their early upbringing which is I feel totally wrong.

However, how such inbuilt biases are undertaken to be solved by our society I am at a loss to perceive.

True Galaxy ,

Davidh, I think we have to look at the reason why the children and the relationship may impact on the woman more than the man . The man who works late is likely to have children and a relationship too. I think maternity leave often establishes a pattern where the children are seen as the womans role, and this can then be a difficult pattern to break. I read an interesting piece recently discussing the fact that women working on the same level as men is still a relatively new concept and society has not yet shifted sufficiently to accommodate this.

Many have come to expect grandad43. ?. You not only are the spokesperson for Unite but for posters on this forum.

Anniebach your post @20:07 tonight is just the standard many have come to expect from you over any amount of time on this forum.

Broad unfounded statements followed as always by personal provocation and abuse.

love beigecardigans1955
re: think we women are expected to be better than men.
Aren't we?

I tell you anything about Jennie Formby grandad43 ? Ask
her or McClusky, I thought you knew what she ate for
breakfast

Then furnish me with what you perceive as the correct information anniebach instead of non-informational broad statements?

Reallygranddad43 Formby left school with virtually no
qualifications?

You have been fed incorrect information

The distinction between Jenny formby and the other Labour party women listed above by some forum members would be that all others with the exception of formby came into the movement from a political aspect.

Formby grew in the movement from an industrial background. In that, on leaving school with virtually no qualifications whatsoever she joined the road transport industry by way of training as a shunter in a petrol and diesel tanker distribution terminal.

At the age nineteen, she stood to be elected as shop steward in that terminal which outside one other woman who worked in the office was totally male in all other employees. However, she was overwhelmingly elected against two others who stood against her and that launched her career in the trade union movement. Formby steadily rose through election to national office improving her education as she progressed.

She has never been an MP but has progressed to gain various elected offices in the parliamentary Party and in the Broader Labour movement in the country and now stands as the General Secretary of the entire movement.

What all MPs, the National Executive, the CLPs, Trade Union General Secretaries and their National executives receive in regard to almost all matters regarding politics in the Labour movement is furnished through Formby's office with its near two hundred and fifty staff.

The above is the sort of influence that the Labour women MPs listed above can in reality only dream of.

As for Margaret Beckett and Margaret Hodge, they do not even accept genuine democracy when it is placed in front of them and would be truly better off in the Tory party such is their regard for the Labour movement and aspirations of working people in Britain.

Women do set very high standards for other women and are very quick to condemn other women for being less than virtuous. Men might avoid woman with a “reputation” but only because of his partners reaction.

In business I find young professional women in general better in all respects than young men. When they get other commitments, children and relationships it gets much more difficult for them to hold their own in the professions. A man might work late to get an assignment done on time, a woman often has kids and a relationship to give more priority to.

It’s really hard with other commitments.

Yes trisher Women have always been the voice of reason, the voices of peace in a world of unreasonable and warmongering men.

Moaning on a forum such as this has never and will never change anything.
You couldn't be more wrong actually grandad, you have just demonstrated an utter lack of knowledge of the womens rights movement in this country. Mumsnet for example has been at the heart of numerous campaigns that have helped womens lives, let toys be toys, and the current campaign for wonens spaces just two examples All started by women talking on a forum. Scary stuff eh?