AIBU to be absolutely disgusted about the statue in Bristol?

I know all that grandad. I am stating if people let the word slut remain for example and I walked past it every day I would think the people who let that remain weren't really interested in making things better. I wouldn't trust them because they know how that makes me feel and let it continue.

The name on a dog’s gravestone is important especially when it has given loyal and loving service. I think most pet lovers remember their pet dog with some kind of memorial when it is no longer with them. It is offensive to think otherwise.

It's not Guy Gibson's gravestone it's the dog's gravestone. Now at a time when so many people were denied gravestones I really can't see that the name on a dog's grave stone was of any real importance. And it is offensive so why not remove it. It's a dog.

Galaxy

How would you change things when I couldn't trust you (I dont mean you personally I mean people who think it's ok to have those words on display)

Galaxy, that word was regularly used in past decades when referring to Black people. That was why the word was used in the Dam Busters film in regards to the name of the dog.

That use of that word is now thought to be disgusting as a reference to black people. However, that was not the case in the 1950s when the film was made.

Times change and attitudes change which is the case with the naming of the dog, the reference to the name of the animal in the film and the word being on the gravestone.

In short, it is about judging past attitudes by today standards.

How would you change things when I couldn't trust you (I dont mean you personally I mean people who think it's ok to have those words on display)

To be perfectly honest Galaxy I don't think the wording on a very old gravestone would affect me a great deal. I would rather try and change things in the here and now.

It is up to the people of Bristol as to which statues are displayed in their city.

Nobody has the right to pull down or erect statues without their agreement

.

I suppose I am just imagining a gravestone with the words and his slut on it for example, I would feel that those who erected the stone were deeply unpleasant people and that women are seen as lesser than. I wonder how that would affect me day in and day out.

Thanks 25Avalon I half expected it to be deleted after I posted.

I think I could explain to my child that this is a word used in an insulting way many years ago Galaxy and that now hopefully people thought differently. I agree with Callistemon we can and should learn about past mistakes and improve the future.

How do you know it was without incident. How many people saw that and were deeply hurt. Imagine having to explain that to your child if you are black.

The gravestone`s been there for over 70 years without incident, why change it now?

Sodapop be careful you aren’t cancelled for writing the n word as in the name of the dog. It was a totally different ethos then and no offence was meant by the use of that word. Lots of dogs were called that and I remember n*** brown cotton thread. I think the gravestone should have been left as it was the dog’s name but with an explanatory note.

Grandad1943 Sat-18-Jul-20 12:21:44

Yes, I agree.
Enough has been lost of the history of Bristol already.

Eradicating things that displease us now does not change the past in any way.
We and future generations need to learn about the past so that we can make a better future for all.

Chewbacca

^If a pillar to any person is to once more be placed on the plinth it should be of someone who^ has worked for the good and benefit of ALL who have resided in Bristol both in the past and present

That's why I think that artists could apply for their installations to be displayed there on a temporary basis and then, if applicable, they could either be sold or donated to a museum or gallery. It would give all voices a chance to be heard.

That's a good idea Chewbacca, as is *EllanVannin's suggestion of clasped hands.

Perhaps Quinn might want to put his statue on the 4th plinth in Trafalgar Square?

I still think that Dr Paul Stephenson is the most deserving person of a statue but if he or his family don't want that, there is no more to be done.

The following is taken from the history of the Bristol Royal Infirmary (BRI):-

"In 1735 the was the first voluntary hospital to be established in England outside London.

The cost of running the infirmary was paid for with annual donations from "a group of wealthy and influential Bristol citizens". They saw it as their moral duty to ensure everyone had access to free healthcare".

The above "influential Bristol Citizens" where in fact the Bristol Merchant Adventures" who owned the ships that transported those people taken in Africa into slavery.

Clifton down a very large open space was also donated to the citizens of Bristol by the "Merchant Adventurers" along with so much else in the city.

What is required is that the considered discussion should take place in regard to the slave trade history of Bristol and other major cities in Britain and how that should now be presented and seen by today's generations.

It has to be faced that Bristol became a very wealthy city due to the slave trade and the "benefits" of that wealth had fed through even until today for those that reside there and also in other major conurbations such as Bath.

To have all the above centred on what should happen to one statue and plinth in Bristol is quite frankly rediculas

MaizieD

Sorry, Cal, you've already made that point X posts

That's ok

It wouldn't have been that heavy, surely?

I just looked it up - one gallon of resin weighs about 9lbs
Resin is modern but the measurements aren't, apparently.

Thanks oldwoman I've been catching up with the news now, I read that the dog's name had been erased from Guy Gibson's gravestone. I really think things are getting out of hand now.

Actually it broke planning laws and could quite possibly have not been securely fastened to the plinth. If you let anyone do anything then we will have monstrosities being built anywhere and little attention to health and safety laws.
Considering that some posters complain about what their neighbours are up to re planning I think we should all give that some thought.

The black mayor of Bristol has had it removed because, quite rightly, he says it should be a community led decision.

Jaycee5

Grandad1943 I didn't suggest it. It is obviously not feasible which is why no one is going to suggest either knocking everything down or renaming it.
I just wondered why you had made the most extreme suggestion knowing that no one was intending to do any such thing. If people do want places renamed, that could be done over time or just the worst chosen but realistically no one is arguing for that for obvious reasons. As I said, roads and building have another purpose.

Jaycee5 in your post @12:40 today you stated:-
"Why would they need to pull those down rather than just renaming them?"

Therefore Jaycee5 you in that post @12:40 made a serious proposal that you now claim in your post @13:24 you were intending to mean no such thing?????

Grandad1943 I didn't suggest it. It is obviously not feasible which is why no one is going to suggest either knocking everything down or renaming it.
I just wondered why you had made the most extreme suggestion knowing that no one was intending to do any such thing. If people do want places renamed, that could be done over time or just the worst chosen but realistically no one is arguing for that for obvious reasons. As I said, roads and building have another purpose.

sodapop the RAF have already replaced the memorial plaque to the dog. His name no longer appears on the plaque.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Jaycee5

Grandad1943 Why would they need to pull those down rather than just renaming them? They have an original purpose beyond glorifying the person whose name was imposed upon them and that purpose still exists.
Suggesting that everything should or would be pulled down is an argument ad absurdum.

Jaycee5, to just rename every road and building in Bristol that has association with the slave trade would be a huge and very costly task and would cause chaos in the city when carried out.

Therefore it is your suggestion that such should be brought about that is "ad absurdum".

Grandad1943 Why would they need to pull those down rather than just renaming them? They have an original purpose beyond glorifying the person whose name was imposed upon them and that purpose still exists.
Suggesting that everything should or would be pulled down is an argument ad absurdum.