Parenting - where I went wrong

I think you're being too hard on yourself. Sounds like you did a good job to me. Both your children turned out well and it seems like you have a good relationship with them, so well done! Mothers always blame themselves no matter what. If I had my time again, I would do some things differently such as feeding them healthier food. However, they never went hungry and were always fit and well. We just do our best.

Jeanrobinson, l think you are doing yourself a disservice. It sounds as if you were a very good mother if your adult offspring have both done so well. As for me, l join the imperfect mother brigade that everyone here bar one seems to belong to.

What l should have added is that we all tried our best and can do no more.

I would give anything to have both my 30-somethings as babies again. I made mistakes... I want to rectify every single one.
That said, they're both amazing.

I'm reminded of a little girl I knew who flatly refused to go to her grans.

The reason? "She's just too nice all the time!"

I'd also love to start all over with what I know now rather than then. But mostly I just want that time back.

Watching my children move out and become adults.... Its so hard, I feel like I had them approximately 5 minutes ago right now

Its just not possible so I just need to hope I was good enough.

Interesting comments about forceps deliveries. My first child was one and out of the three I had she has been the most challenging. When I asked my older 2 in their thirties, what their experience of childhood was like, the eldest said pretty awful, 2nd said perfectly normal and youngest (by many years) said great. I thought I’d treated them all the same way. ?‍♀️

Lucca -- I always worry when anyone throws out the word 'perfect' in regards to parenting. I know I'm not perfect.

"Well holyhannah I’m not sure missA needs your feedback/advice" -- Admitting to low levels of patience toward minor children is not something to minimize in my experience.

Poppyred -- I am by no means "all knowing" but I do know a lot about child psychology and child abuse.

BlueBelle -- "Holyhannah you picked the right name there" -- It's an exclamation of surprise or excitement. God knows there's nothing else about me that's 'holy'.

DannieRae -- "I hesitate to put my 'not perfect' mother post - I don't want to be judged by Holyhannah
My goodness how proud she must be to even give herself that name...........and I would also say how brave she must be too!" -- There is a mile of distance between being 'not perfect' and abusive. I grew up around abuse and know what it sounds like and it goes well beyond 'imperfection'. And my religion is Jedi so the 'holy' part of my username has nothing to do with Christianity.

Urmstongran -- "I gather that HH had a very unhappy childhood so it’s quite understandable she has personal knowledge about what harm can be done to a child through bad parenting and puts a lot of effort and thought into doing it better herself." -- Thank you. Actually if you had asked me then or before recovery if I had a 'good' or 'happy' childhood, I would probably have said, "Yes." That was what being raised by abusers does. They tell you that you are happy/close and you believe them. Inside you just want to be dead. Having an 'unhappy childhood' is very different from an abusive one.

Starblaze -- "It is not the mistakes that make for bad parenting... Its the (in)ability to be accountable for those mistakes and show you make a real genuine effort not to make them again." -- It's a rather simple concept as far as I can see.

"I find it very odd that anyone would say I cannot mention estrangement when it relates so strongly to my relationship with my parent and my relationship with my children and the lessons it has taught me." -- One would think our voice would be helpful to possibly prevent estrangement from happening using our experiences. Isn't that what healthy/mature adults do, learn and grow from experience?

Jo1960 -- "HolyHannah, you may not realise it but your comments don't paint you in a very good light. It's a gross insult to so many to suggest that children always imitate their parents" -- I am in good company then. And I was talking about short term/in the moment type behaviors and not long term outcomes. If you yell and scream and 'lose patience' quickly with young children, they learn 'that' is how you behave when something upsets you. So then when the child gets upset/throws a temper-tantrum, this further annoys/agitates the adult/care-giver which makes them yell and scream and escalate the issue more. Parents/adults are always the models of behavior and what you model is what you get back.

ExD -- "Don't you think there's an element of truth in Holy Hannah's remarks? Don't you think you've been a bit harsh?" -- There probably IS but because I'm not a 'good person' anything I say, regardless of truthfulness/honesty etc. must be denied/dismissed. As for harsh? All I ever wanted was to be loved/accepted by my 'family' and what I got was constant blame/shame and abuse. If I survived my Narc 'mom' a few negative comments from internet strangers is hardly what I call 'harsh'. Thank you for the support though.

I'd just like to point out that I don't "yell and scream", so that it doesn't somehow become something that is repeated as something I've said.
Thanks.

Holyhannah I think sometimes our existence is frightening. Because our parents were abusive and some of the mistakes our parents made were relatable. The terrible times I have given myself for making relatable mistakes... I truly understand that fear.

But it's not the mistakes that are the issue quite often when relationships break down. It's that they weren't apologised for and they were continued deliberately.

If someone tells you something you did hurt them, you don't get to tell them it didn't.

You also don't get to tell people pointing out your bad behaviour is too painful for you when it was honesty about your behaviour and being accountable will lead to a better relationship.

Abusive people don't hold themselves accountable unless external (outside of the abuse) people witness their behaviour.

So if you've made mistakes and been accountable/stopped that behaviour, you aren't a bad parent, I'd call you a good parent.

I don't believe in perfect parents. I've never seen one.

Like if I am stressed or tired and I've run out of patience and snap... That's bad. If I say I'm so sorry, I shouldn't snap at you because I had a bad day, that's OK. If I realise that my snapping at my children may influence how they communicate and make them snappy too, and they are capable of understanding that I had a bad day and I might need 5 minutes please to go hide in my bed and eat chocolate... Is that not better?

I think that must have been where I went wrong, Starblaze, not enough chocolate.

I think sometimes our existence is frightening of course it's frightening. It's frightening to know what some adults are capable of doing to children.

There's no such thing as a perfect parent which we all agree on and there are things that all parents I'm sure, wish they'd done differently or hadn't done. Abuse though, that's something entirely different.

icanhandthemback lol!

I will never forgive my parents for my upbringing. My life has been extremely difficult because of the legacy they left me with. I'm not looking for sympathy, just saying.

I think just because that phrase is trotted out by abusive parents, it's not safe to assume that anyone who says it is also abusive.
People will get things wrong, and be less than perfect simply because they are humans, and humans are a complex lot.

I had no trouble bringing up 4 children---2 step and 2 of my own. I was firm but fair and hopefully guided them through their lives into adulthood. They all still speak to me
I brought them up the same as I was and boy do they appreciate it now and understand the errors of their own offsprings ways !

Years later, it was their offspring who were troublesome and subsequent ones thereafter, when society dictated how you should bring your children up----Humbug ! Ferals everywhere because there's no discipline in the home.

It's interesting to me that one of the things most parents want to teach their children is to "say sorry".

My Dad who I didn't get to see as often as I would have liked as a child because of my mum and who is a good parent and saved some of said childhood...

He taught me "never say sorry unless you mean it" and "don't just say sorry, be sorry" because sorry is meaningless unless you have taken the time to understand why you are sorry and you mean it enough to try to not repeat the behaviour.

never say sorry unless you mean it and don't just say sorry, be sorry wise words and important to teach your children that an empty sorry is meaningless.

"Talk's cheap" my mum used to say.

My mum and gran would say the same MissA.

I remember my daughter quoting it at me, too.

That made me laugh MissA. I remember my mum saying things to me and saying she sounded just like my gran, and me saying things to our boys and saying I sounded just like her.

DS quotes things back to me too, usually beginning with "now mum, remember when you'd say ..........".

MissAdventure -- In my reply of Sat 05-Sep-20 04:38:39 I never mentioned You.

"I'd just like to point out that I don't "yell and scream", so that it doesn't somehow become something that is repeated as something I've said. Thanks." -- I never said you did/do or anyone else. It's called a general statement aimed at anyone minding minor children.

I try to use 'general statements' because direct replies/observations of what people actually SAY gets called Me "judging".

Someone said to Me, "HolyHannah, you may not realise it but your comments don't paint you in a very good light." -- That is not a comment on the validity of what I said. That is a judgement of which I was being chastised for doing myself (if that is even what I was doing/did). Who decided that my comments don't "paint you (me) in a very good light"?

I echo that response/mentality/belief that, "your comments don't paint you in a very good light" -- And never do comments/replies etc. to Me 'sound like'/mirror my Narc 'mom'... Well, actually they DO...

So, there is no "polite"/'correct' way to say, "IF You talk/'sound like'/behave like my 'mom' who IS a diagnosed Narc... YOU might be the 'problem'."

I am sad reading this thread this morning. I've had to comfort my SiL this week on the death of his mother, who was a difficult person to live with and certainly the children had a hard life growing up. Pots of money, poverty in terms of love. Nannies brought them up really. I have wept before today at the stories of their upbringing.

Her six children were distressed at the funeral apparently (I wasn't able to be present). I couldn't think what on earth to say to him, when he tried to tell me how he felt at her passing aged 96 years. He hasn't forgiven her yet and she had been - I think 'neglectful mother' would describe her best.

I simply said 'she was the best mother she knew how to be'. Not sure he felt comforted, but it was all I could think of. I hope in time he may be able to forgive.

I had lost both parents by the time I was 26 years old. That was hard, but how relieved I am reading some of the posts this morning, that whenever I think of them, I remember their laughter.