I wasn’t a Birthing Person and I didn’t Chest Feed

Can we please bring this thread back on track as I am very interested in language and how it is being used and changed.

I discovered this link to other examples...

beajaspert.substack.com/p/lets-form-an-alliance

MBHP1,
I have just read your link, my goodness it certainly strives to make heavy-weather of something that is actually quite simple Breastfeeding/Not Breastfeeding.

Thank you * Elegran * for your learned explanation of “cis”. Makes great sense. Sorry it took me so long to respond but have only just logged in again. In reality I was beginning to think no one knew the explanation.

Well if it is language we are looking at let's consider how far we have come in the last 50years. When was a child the euphamisms used to cover up female functions was huge "on the rag","got my friend" etc. I honestly thought men knew nothing about such things, it was women's business. We have moved on thank goodness. Language changes it's a living thing.
I read the link by the way I found it interesting but sadly it became unacceptable when it presented its opinion of rape and considered most victims of rape have a vagina. Male rape is of growing concern. It is largely unreported and the numbers in war zones are huge.

Bridgeit

MBHP1,
I have just read your link, my goodness it certainly strives to make heavy-weather of something that is actually quite simple Breastfeeding/Not Breastfeeding.

I thought it expanded it.
I wonder why you think it heavy weather?

Well it is quite simple in my opinion, you either breastfeed or breastfeed & bottle feed or you bottle feed.
There may be occasions, when a premature baby receives breast milk from a milk donor because a mother is separated from their baby because of complications etc.

The law states that anyone with a Gender Recognition Certificate can be denied access to single sex places if there s a justifiable reason for doing so

Inaccuracy or otherwisevis not what I was commenting on!! My point was that in that specific comment it seemed appropriate for the poster to comment specifically on trans women not trans men, as the poster had been criticised for ignoring trans men "

Madgran77

*The law states that anyone with a Gender Recognition Certificate can be denied access to single sex places if there s a justifiable reason for doing so*

Inaccuracy or otherwisevis not what I was commenting on!! My point was that in that specific comment it seemed appropriate for the poster to comment specifically on trans women not trans men, as the poster had been criticised for ignoring trans men "

You are correct it was appropriate.

I was puzzled as to why you got the response you did!

Surely the point about rape is that it’s almost entirely something committed by men. Pointing out that more men are reporting rape only confirms the extent of rape. I support the brave men who report. I haven’t seen the stats but I hope the have more chance of their rapist being convicted than women do

Iam64 the figures on male rape are not reliable and aome say it takes 20 or 30 years for a man to report rape. The case of Reynhard Sinaga -the most prolific rapist ever- is incredibly shocking. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/09/reynhard-sinaga-crimes-sexual-violence-men-rape
American studies report cases of rape on college campuses and they also document female on female rape which happens. It's a shockng record of violence which seems to be getting worse not better.

re male rape - respect to Iam who has more experience than me in this subject.
As an EP , and me still rather sexually naive, one of my teenage "clients" told me how he had been gang-banged by a group who lived in his area.
Whatever the hormone treatment of m-f change, I don't think this part of gender difference (enjoying fighting etc) can be easily changed.

The figures on rape of people are unreliable trisher. So few victims report for reasons that are easily understood.
I followed the case of Sinagha, he was arrested in Manchester. Yes some women are violent sec offenders. The vast majority of sexual offences are committed by men. Few prosecutions follow complaints. Few of those prosecutions result in convictions. It’s scsndalous

It is Iam64 and tackling it should be a priority both through a better and more easily accessible legal system, and through education and information. Unfortunately I can't see that happening at any time in the near future.

Let's not ignore that any transwoman with a penis who rapes or assaults a woman will have her crime entered in the female statistics. If it comes to court her victim will be compelled to use the she pronoun.
thepostmillennial.com/women-compelled-by-judiciary-to-defer-to-attackers-gender-preferences-in-court

Statistics on offending rates will be totally useless, a work of fiction not fact. Fennel that is a major consideration, MtF transitioners maintain male offending rates and patterns, but now they'll be entered in the female column. Of course most MtF will not be offenders outside the normal percentages. The vile abuse from some transwomen on twitter towards J K Rowling was full of "choke on my ladydick" type comments. I've never once read of a woman threatening anyone with their vulva.

geekesse

Oh, get over it! Individuals can call themselves and their body parts what they wish. I can’t believe that in the throes of a pandemic, everyone is getting het up about such a trivial thing.

Individuals can do that.
But medical staff are being told to use these 'gender-neutral' terms for everyone so if someone wants to call herself a mother who breastfeeds, no-one will be agreeing with her.

eazybee

Why do these ideas gain such credence?

Because activists have been wheedling away for decades and most people have been completely unaware or have thought there was no problem with being 'nice' and 'inclusive'.
It is very nearly too late now.

Going off-piste a bit, do female-to-male transitionists refer to non-trans men as cismen, or is just a term for non-trans women? They seem in general to be less bitter about the gender they are joining than the male-to-female are. Could that be because any hormone treatment with testosterone is likely to make them more confident and relaxed about their own secure position, whereas oestrogen taken by the male-to-female ones could be making them less confident and (paradoxically) more assertive as a result?

Elegran I believe that cis works for either gender, but few men prefix their descriptor with it. Why people bother is up to them, I wouldn't bother - unless someone is trying to indicate who they are willing to sleep with I see no point. All of these prefixes are just telling other people where you stand - if you don't want others to know, or don't care you don't have to use them for yourself, but it is only polite to describe other people how they've described themselves, hence the use of pronouns.

Do you really see trans women as bitter? Or is that because of the few angry idiots who can't accept a different view with dignity and go raging about on social media being pretty vile? Genuine question, not to argue with, but understand.

I see some transwomen as bitter, such as the ones who invent a new term for women who have been women all their lives and don't need renaming as ciswomen - that isn't describing themselves as they want to be known, it is describing someone else. Perhaps some are dismissive of the women who have not had to cross the Alps of transition as they have but have stayed "comfortably", as it probably appears to them, on the Cis side where they were born.

I can’t recall see c** used as a prefix for men. It’s a word used almost exclusively to describe women by TRA . It’s all part of their agenda of erasing the category of natal women an£ denying the reality of their lived experiences as biological women. It’s a nonsense isn’t it that the term non- trans woman has been coined? FGS it’s a woman . What has also been omitted here is that the term c** is also trying to equate sex with gender. I’m a gender critical feminist and will never accept uncritically gender stereotypes and especially those of the typical TRA - all heels, make up and frilly dresses.

X posts Elegran

But suziewoozie much as I may disagree with the lifestyles and dress of some women I wouldn't say that was a demarcation that can be made purely on the grounds of trans or natal. There are women out on city streets in outfits I don't like but I would 100% support their right to wear whatever they want. After all it isn't too long ago that women dressed a certain way were told they were inviting rape. Any way of dressing for female or male goes as far as I'm concerned.

The ones in frills and flounces are only those who are attracted to that style of dress. Perhaps that was a part of their wish to be women, which contributed to them wanting to change? Those who prefer a less flamboyant style are just going about their business without drawing attention to themselves - rather like the majority of women. Not every woman chooses the same striking outfits as the celebs whose photos grace the media.

They obviously don't know much about the birds and the bees!!

Any way of dressing for female or male goes as far as I'm concerned.

And whatever a person's choice of clothes, they remain female or male and can't change that.