Census 2021 and self ID

It's very much a non-issue though isn't it. It's based on two unlikely and scarcely credible assumptions. The first is that there are so many trans people the numbers could skew the figures, the second is that all those trans people would choose to state their chosen gender as their birth sex. Firstly the number is so small it will have little effect and secondly only a small number of trans people will not disclose their birth sex. But it's keeping the legal profession in the money!!

Fair Play for Women is taking forward a Judicial Review to try to prevent the ONS from advising that the question on sex can be answered using self-identified sex.

They have a Crowdfunder, as they need to raise money quickly for this. The link gives a lot of information on the background and the reasons for challenging the ONS.

www.crowdfunder.co.uk/sexinthecensus2021

No I dont report if I can help it, I prefer to let things stand and been seen.

Galaxy

Is GN allowed to publish statements about other organisations like that.

Feel free to report me.

NellG

If the trans community is so "tiny" then the fact that they can self ID in the census will make zero difference to the data as it pertains to women's services in years to come.

Or is there some fear here that all of a sudden a massive chunk of the population will self identify as trans and all the nice, privileged, cosy opinions of the NIMBYs will be challenged?

If this ravening horde of self identifiers put themselves down as female, they might swell the ranks of the 51%, overthrow the patriarchy and gold plate women's services for years to come. Now, there would be a thing...

I agree. In practice, I can't see it will make much difference.

People in public institutions (hospitals, workhouses, prisons, etc.) were included in censuses at the address they were residing on the date of the census.

At the moment Stonewall suggests 1% /600,000 people.

Well if we think there are more than about 3.5 million trans people in the UK it might make a statistical difference but usually anything less than 5% is not going to impact significantly on decisions.

They are mostly fighting through the legal system, and have completely altered the debate. A couple of years ago these discussions would just not have taken place in the public sphere, because 'no debate' women have fought to make this a mainstream debate and succeeded. Fairplay for women have also done an enormous amount of work on sex segregated places. It was feminists who stood with Keira Bell, who challenged the teaching that was occurring in schools with regard to gender/sex stereotypes. I think Julie Bindel, Kathleen Stock, Janice Turner have done some amazing work to name but a few.

Galaxy I don't understand how women are organising to protect their. rights either. I've looked up "A Woman's Place"which I know is one of the organisations who are campaignng on this. I looked at the events it organised and few managed over 150 attendees a lot had less than 100. The one which had most was in fact organised by UCL so it wasn't their event. The last International Women's day event I attended in my city had more women than that attending (of course some of them may have been transwomen). So where are the feminists who think this really matters?

Telling feminists to get organised is just very funny and shows a spectacular lack of understanding of the way women are organising to protect their rights.

Why couldn't they have just been given their own categories? I am really surprised they weren't. It is 2021, surely there should have been an option for trans female, trans male and non binary. What difference would it have made?

Is GN allowed to publish statements about other organisations like that.

Ilovecheese I do think that. My last paragraph was tongue in cheek.

It felt better than saying that the original post is abhorrent and transphobic.

If the census returns data that says 75% of the population self identify as porridge, then we'll know that infrastructure and services will change to accommodate the majority. Yet, funnily enough nothing would be taken from the minority.

For instance - the "tiny" yet "vocal" group of people who have campaigned for change have been heard and their needs included.

Perhaps all the people who claim to be feminists but do nothing other than do down other groups should take note, get organised and become more "vocal", then they might actually improve women's rights rather than whining that a "tiny" minority group might rob them of rights they already have. Rights that are protected and that will not deteriorate should trans people gain rights too.

The original post is nasty, insidious transphobic rhetoric that should be slapped down in no uncertain terms as is the organisation it links to.

Do you not think though, NellG that an accurate picture of the numbers of people who would like to or who do live as a different sex than the one recorded on their birth certificate, would lead to a greater understanding of their needs?
If the state does not know, how can it provide services that reflect the need?

If the trans community is so "tiny" then the fact that they can self ID in the census will make zero difference to the data as it pertains to women's services in years to come.

Or is there some fear here that all of a sudden a massive chunk of the population will self identify as trans and all the nice, privileged, cosy opinions of the NIMBYs will be challenged?

If this ravening horde of self identifiers put themselves down as female, they might swell the ranks of the 51%, overthrow the patriarchy and gold plate women's services for years to come. Now, there would be a thing...

The commentary on that link is quite biased but I did see the video when it was available.
The kids mostly looked baffled and the adults were mostly talking rubbish, as you could see from that 'exciting' chat about numerous 'gender identities'.
What's wrong with expressing your personality without calling it a 'gender'?

It's ludicrous that schools are going along with this, while often still having different uniform rules, and rules about appearance, for girls and boys.

I've had a quick google to see how hospital inpatients are recorded but only found answers relating to the U.S.

trisher Interesting question about the number of people in hospital.

The BBC video has been withdrawn. The prejudice expressed on the link-including "a lesbian headmistress" shocked me. There are still people working in education who were afraid to disclose their homosexuality for years for fear of being ostracised. It's not that long since clause 28 was withdrawn. There are young adults now who suffered at school because of such prejudice. I'd hate to see anything like it returning.

Perhaps the questions should be -Designated sex at birth m/f Gender in 2021 m/f/non-binary.

Of course they should be.
So strange that it isn't happening, tho.

A tiny minority of people have Gender Recognition Certificates but there's no way of knowing how many have chosen to self-identify as the opposite sex.
There still will be no way of knowing that, from the Census.

Perhaps activists want to maintain an illusion of a 'tiny minority' while in fact increasing numbers of males are identifying, and being accepted, as girls and women.

Males being accepted as girls and women in female sports is just one example of how this will not help women.

ilovecheese I wonder how the numbers of people in hospital at the time will influence the census, particularly if those people live alone. It doesn't seem that the Covid figures will be at all predictable.
I agree about the outsourcing I see they are still advertising for people.

OP, yes, YABU. Over and out.

There are going to be two questions, one for sex and one for gender BUT the sex question will allow someone to say what's on other documentation rather than their birth certificate. It's a case of a tiny but vocal minority having an influence on something as important as the census.

Chestnut this has already been discredited and I think schools are being told to not show it. Schools have also received guidnace on using organisations such as Mermaids and Stonewall too.