Census 2021 and self ID

Reasons I've heard :

It upsets them.

If the form is being filled in by someone else who doesn't know that the person is trans, they will have to 'out' themselves by saying what their true sex is.

Nobody's answered my question as to why transpeople don't want to say what their biological sex is.

On one hand, ou say this is a TINY number, which means they will have a very minimal affect on the results.
All this is to pander to a tiny but very vocal trans community

But on the other you imply they are a real multitude and will totally change the results.
totally skewed and will affect women's services for years to come

These points are totally contradictory chattykathy. Much like most transphobia.

#Schrödingerstransperson

Found only on Gransnet (nowhere else) a strange, persistent obsession with - and perceived threat from, transgender people. Why? Can anyone explain?

'Women only' spaces have always run on trust anyway. Nobody checks what's in your underwear!

I've already mentioned the 1911 census when huge numbers of women simply went "missing". Did that damage services?

chattykathy, I really don't think it matters. How will it make the slightest difference to your life? Why are you 'fuming'?

You're assuming the census data are accurate - when in fact it's only ever been an overview of things.

For instance, occupation 'shirt maker' was widely used in the past - for those women who didn't want to declare the 'oldest occupation'!

Thanks for the name calling NellG water off a duck's back

Why are transpeople so against answering a factual question about the sex they were born? They will also have an opportunity to answer the gender question. There are multiple reasons why collecting data on sex is important from physical and mental health, education, the labour market, pay inequalities and crime. I don't understand why transpeople feel the need to answer both questions according to their gender identity. Surely we need accurate data on both.

You only have to look at the expressions on those children’s faces to recognise what a confusing & IMO unnecessary statement(s) is being delivered to them.
What is the rush? Let them be young & carefree. They will ask questions themselves when or if THEY are ready to do so.

As far as I know, there are two parts to the question: firstly, asking about gender at birth and, secondly, asking about any change.

That would be fine but it isn't what's happening.

The first question will be asking about sex, and the guidance will advise that self-identified sex is acceptable.

This is not about a simplified legal process, is about people simply saying they are the opposite sex and having it legally accepted.
You can be sure that its use in the census will be quoted as a precedent in other situations.

Trisher, I do appreciate that you look at fairplay for women etc, I dont think you were ever going to agree with their stance and I dont think there is much mileage in us going over the changing room debate again but as I say I appreciate you looking. I regularly read jolyon maughan and Owen Jones who hold very different views to me on this. I do try and hear what they are saying.

OK I've looked at the Women's Place thing and listened to them. What disturbs me most about them is their misrepresentation of the facts. They talk about changing rooms being open to transwomen without acknowledging that this has been happenng for a long time and is actually a legal requirement of transition. They talk about self ID as if it will be a completely unregulated process when what most tranpeople want is a legal process that removes the medical intervention.So whatever class or political stance they have they undermine their own arguments for me.

"Upper class" women? Lots of women who have disagreed with being called " cis women" etcetera come from all classes, I'm not trans phobic, but I sometimes feel that I'm being overlooked, no doubt I will get shouted at.

No, I'm fine, it's just that you're name dropping again and it always seems to point to you getting a bit fighty. Just wanted to check and see if we could maybe have a conversation without the 'also rans'.

Upper class women, right wing women, etc etc. We have heard all these stereotypes before. These women have been involved in issues relating to male violence for example for years. It reminds me of when someone asked what Julie Bindel had ever done before for women in prison.

I suppose it depends if you think a few upper class women expressing their prejudices and ignorance by taking unnecessary and costly legal action is women organising. I prefer a grassroots organisation of ordinary women acting to protect and change the real issues which are affecting their lives. Women like the ones who resurrected the Reclaim the Streets march, campaigned about Period poverty and formed Preganant Then Screwed. Why not begin funding those women who cannot afford and do not have the time or energy to challenge their dismissal because they are heavily pregnant when it happens? Much more important then a tiny minority of a tiny minority.

No Nell G are you?

Are you having a bad day Galaxy?

Its funny though trisher you ask whether women are organising and then complain when they do.

It wont be inaccurate, it will gather a realistic picture of how people are living in the UK in 2021.

Galaxyit will be no more inaccurate than a number of other questions on the census that rely on people answering truthfully and sensibly. One example being the question on religion which caused all sorts of upsets and amusement when people were urged to enter "Jedi" . A lot of people know very little about the census, the inaccuracies and mistakes which have always happened. It's really a non-issue.

I’m very, very pleased about the decision and would wholeheartedly oppose as pseudo-feminist backlash.

That's ok we can worry about a whole range of issues all at once.

I agree with you trisher. As far as I know, there are two parts to the question: firstly, asking about gender at birth and, secondly, asking about any change. To be honest, people could lie if they wanted to, but why would they? Some people fill in stupid things on the census anyway.

There really are more important issues to get in a sweat about.

Why on earth would you want a gathering of information to be inaccurate by design. There is also advice on a coordinated response on MN.

Had it been a real human rights issue there are a number of women human rights lawyers who would probably have acted for nothing.