Sarah Everard vigil

Absolutely Nell. You said it all.

Barmeyoldbat

We had a vigil here in Bristol and it was peaceful, a police presence, no arrests and no trouble. So why was it just London that had trouble and arrests?

My guess would be, having watched some footage, that for a disruptive minority it wasn't a vigil, but a protest and deliberately so.

People hooting, yelling screaming, punching the air, hitting out at police and others filming it all on their phones are not what I understand a vigil to be.

NellG. Are you having an especially bad day? I ask this as you appear to be coming down like the proverbial ton of bricks on anyone who ventures a different opinion from yours or suggests some other aspect of a situation. Discussion does not need to be quite so heavy handed. Report me for saying this but I suspect that there are few Grans currently smarting from some of your retorts on this and other threads.

Aveline

*NellG*. Are you having an especially bad day? I ask this as you appear to be coming down like the proverbial ton of bricks on anyone who ventures a different opinion from yours or suggests some other aspect of a situation. Discussion does not need to be quite so heavy handed. Report me for saying this but I suspect that there are few Grans currently smarting from some of your retorts on this and other threads.

Wow - what a brave post?

Its so sad that this happened in London when here on Merseyside & NW area vigils where held with no reports of trouble.

The family must be devastated at what has happened this week-end my heart goes out to them.

Aveline probably not as many as those who PM asking me to "keep up the good work".

I am not obliged to be 'nice' - though I often am, and no one here is obliged to like me.

The others are free to take me to task if they think I'm wrong in what I say. I will absolutely stand down if I am proved wrong, and have done.

What I wont do is let prejudice, racism, sexism, misogyny, misandry, ableism, ageism and behaviour designed to marginalise and minimise dignity and self respect etc to pass without comment. If I see it, I will call it because I would prefer to be a part of the solution rather than the problem.

I don't tell anyone to post or not post, or dictate when and where they can, how can I?

Maybe the real issue is that people here don't like having their prejudices challenged?

Prejudice prevails where it remains unchallenged.

Please note all the posts and threads on here that don't have a response from me, I read more than I post.

Having said that, if you feel that I am trolling and causing undue upset for pleasure, you should report me and ask GN to deal with it.

Or are you just saying "No one likes you Nell, we don't want you here." ?

NellG

Aveline probably not as many as those who PM asking me to "keep up the good work".

I am not obliged to be 'nice' - though I often am, and no one here is obliged to like me.

The others are free to take me to task if they think I'm wrong in what I say. I will absolutely stand down if I am proved wrong, and have done.

What I wont do is let prejudice, racism, sexism, misogyny, misandry, ableism, ageism and behaviour designed to marginalise and minimise dignity and self respect etc to pass without comment. If I see it, I will call it because I would prefer to be a part of the solution rather than the problem.

I don't tell anyone to post or not post, or dictate when and where they can, how can I?

Maybe the real issue is that people here don't like having their prejudices challenged?

Prejudice prevails where it remains unchallenged.

Please note all the posts and threads on here that don't have a response from me, I read more than I post.

Having said that, if you feel that I am trolling and causing undue upset for pleasure, you should report me and ask GN to deal with it.

Or are you just saying "No one likes you Nell, we don't want you here." ?

You do disingenuity very well.

Is it a full moon?

JaneJudge

Is it a full moon?

Nope

The reports that I read seem to indicate that things went wrong when people could not hear the speakers so surged forward. There were no mics as it wasn't authorized. I really don't think that the police can be blamed for doing their job. The family were not in favour which surely should have held some sway.

I can't help wondering what it was hoped to achieve. The sort of men who commit these atrocities aren't going to be the slightest bit bothered. If all the women in the country came out with candles these men would only see potential targets. If it leads to more convictions and stiffer punishments it still won't stop a lot of men. The man intent on attacking or murdering his wife or girlfriend is beyond thinking about consequences. More police and more CCTV may help but I have no idea what the real answer is.

Vigil, protest it doesn’t matter as it was against the law as it is at the moment . You cannot choose for the police to not uphold that law no matter how worthy the cause. Doorstep vigil, vociferous lobbying of your MP would have been a better way forward. Also , and I shall duck down under the parapet after this, every man who disregards, disrespects or harms a woman was once a boy brought up most probably by a woman- boys must be raised better. Ok ducking now......!

Impartial - The revered George was resisting arrest after the commission of a crime, not by any means his first transgression

George Floyd's criminal record is completely irrelevant to the manner of his death. He was the Victim!! The Police Officer was the "perpetrator"!! He wasn't resisting arrest, he was trying to explain then grabbed and manhandled to the ground BTW. And "revered" is so sadly dismissive of a man who was apparently murdered by a police officer.

Dig down and the issue is the same - black people and women's murders are treated as collateral damage and their deaths diminished

I agree NellG. Diminished indeed.

They really need to change the law on front facing restraint, it is so dangerous and is known to lead to death. The police still use it in this country and it is used in mental health treatment units and it seriously needs addressing and I'm not sure why it hasn't been.

A protest or a vigil, what ever we chose to call it, or if we agree or disagree at the moment, isn't the issue.
Large gatherings are at the moment against the law.

emmasnan

A protest or a vigil, what ever we chose to call it, or if we agree or disagree at the moment, isn't the issue.
Large gatherings are at the moment against the law.

It’s the differential treatment by the police of large gatherings that’s the issue.

eazybee

This was not a vigil, it was used as a protest, in defiance of a High court ruling.

It was a vigil but was hijacked by people with another agenda.

'Sisters Uncut' is a group which pretends to be feminist but centres men. It has been trying to draw attention to itself, through this.

As Dame Cressida said , words to the effect that you can’t comment unless you were there. The police have a very difficult job , and I don’t see why the commissioner should have to fall on her sword

In agreement with suziewoozie it's the differential approach that I have an issue with, and if anyone cannot see the irony of women being 'dragged' from Clapham Common by Policeman, well I give up really. Surely a softly-softly approach would have been more appropriate.

Atqui

As Dame Cressida said , words to the effect that you can’t comment unless you were there. The police have a very difficult job , and I don’t see why the commissioner should have to fall on her sword

So how come the findings of any investigations will have any credibility whatever they find? What CD said was self-serving and arrant nonsense.

the differential approach

If this is referring to the difference in approach in the summer, the rules were different in the summer...?

A family members partner is a police officer.Last week after lying awake for hours waiting for him to come home safe from his shift she unfollowed an friend from school who despite knowing her partner felt it was OK to use a group forum to post regularly invective and hateful posts about the police.All police.One of her other lovely friends asked her to refrain on this particular group chat.Her response.I am a feminist, anti establishment and anti capitalist .Those are my views.
My DD messaged politely you are entitled to your opinions.However at this current time I no longer want to read them.I absolutely don't say the majority of the women at the Vigil/protest were of her ilk.But I can well believe she would be there purely to agitate.And no I don't think the event should have gone ahead at this present time.Light candles at home,do an online vigil.

Beg to differ Suziewoozie, I think it was a fair and measured response. Police , Army, Fireservice - there are always armchair critics ( probably desk jockeys) who think they could have done better.

Madgran77

*the differential approach*

If this is referring to the difference in approach in the summer, the rules were different in the summer...?

It's refering to the fact there were other vigils and the police didn't feel they had to man handle women at those? I thought it was obvious I didn't see any other photographs of prone restraint of women elsewhere

Madgran77

*the differential approach*

If this is referring to the difference in approach in the summer, the rules were different in the summer...?

There were enough similarities for fair comparisons I think in that mass gatherings were not allowed - BLMs, various football fans gatherings, far- right groups etc.