Is it becoming impossible for some older people to manage their affairs independently?

simtib

My Mum is 99 still living in her own bungalow. Had milk delivered but has now been told that she now has to order it online and pay online. There is no way she could start useing the internet at her age so now can nolonger get milk delivered.

My 94yo cousin has this problem too. Fortunately, a neighbour has a different milk delivery person, so she will be able to latch on to this one. If this is the way milk delivery services are going, though, it is bound to affect those without internet access. Worrying.

I'm sure the envelope will have been sent and will turn up inside her house at some later stage.

M0nica

There is always a problem when one 'technology' is going out of use and has been superceded by another.

It is not so long since there was an enormous fuss when the government insisted on making pension and benefit payments into bank accounts because a small number of older people still lived in a cash-only economy.

Having said that, I do think in a case like this, where someone has phoned for paper form, it is reasonable to assume that they do not have, or cannot use a computer so the return address should be on the form.

I would immediately be on to my local council, or local newspaper/radio to point out the absurdity of not having a return address on the form.

When they started paying my Mum's pension into her bank account, we had to withdraw it from a cashpoint for her; she had trouble walking and couldn't go out unaccompanied, and had macular degeneration, so couldn't see. I don't know what she'd have done if we couldn't help.

I hope the question is systems other than on line should be available. If someone asked to vote by post then all communications should be by post for that person. If the question is all should be able to deal with all their affairs no matter circumstance then you are being unreasonable.

This is what concerned me with first lockdown when supermarkets made the elderly priority for home deliveries surely that was only possible if they had a computer and was up to speed with using it. I’m lucky I’ve got 16 year old granddaughter that’s a wiz on internet like most youngsters, but we’ve had to learn as we go.

I get a yellow polling card saying i have a postal vote my daughter gets a white one telling her where her polling station is

My mother, who is 93, recently had a fall at home and fractured her hip. She did have a basic PAYG phone with big buttons, but as her arthritis worsened she couldn't use it and has great difficulty using touchscreens in shops and banks. I wasn't allowed to visit her in hospital so we had to rely on phones to communicate - I've lost count of the number of staff on her ward who said can't she use her mobile phone when I asked to speak to her on the ward phone. One young male nurse carefully explained that there was an i-pad that we could use even though I explained that she couldn't use a touchscreen and I didn't have a mobile phone that would connect to it.

It has taken this pandemic to show that not everyone can afford or has access to technology. Many of our local schools provided lots of online learning that many of their pupils couldn't access. One of my former pupils, who I'm still in touch with, is at secondary school now - in their household there is one smart phone provided by his mother's employer for her to use for her work, but no printer. For the short time that it's available to him, he has had to share this with his sister, who is at college. During the first lockdown one of his classmates printed out stuff on his computer and brought it round for him. In the subsequent lockdowns he's been able to go to school as a vulnerable child.

I recently applied for a postal vote. A prepaid envelope was enclosed with the forms.

This is similar to what they did with Premium Bond wins. They stopped sending cheques out and wanted everyone to enter their bank details online. My FIL is not on the internet and has no interest in getting a “machine”. I managed to do his partner’s bank details however I could do his as at some point his partner must have set up an account for him with NS&I and she now has advanced dementia. This meant him trying to get through by phone to give his bank details to prizes could be paid directly to him.. so now I get emails telling me of her prizes and he gets letters about his.

It obviously depends on your local authority as I didn't get a yellow card like a previous poster.

It is true about printers though. My Mum was saying she has issues with return labels to send things back as they don't have a printer. She said she was told by one company the post office can print them off for you but the post office said they don't do it (this is one of my frustrations about life tbh, one person tells you one thing, then the other person says no, then you are back to square one)

I have been using the postal vote option for a few years now. I believe I had to sign a form to start with so they could check via Council Tax/whatever they have me registered with to ensure it was actually me. They still send a normal "poll card" through the post but it is then followed up with an envelope inside an envelope with a voting slip you then have to seal inside the envelope provided and then post on. (Sounds like a lot on envelopes but she will see when she gets it). It is not as daunting as it sounds!!
I doubt there is, or ever will ever be, an option to vote online since this would be so open to abuse. Good Luck.

Come on Helgawills, she is 94. She offers you money because she hates having to ask favours and all she can do is try to pay for your help.

P.S. I have friends and family who are totally computer literate but still ask me to look up things for them. It doesn’t bother me as it only takes a minute or two, but I don’t understand why they need me to do it for them.

We usually vote by post- first we get a PINK card with our details on and states for when voting is (may this time i think it mentions- but then nearer time we get a WHITE actual voting card/form with return envelopes- the pink one is just to acknowledge that they have us down for postal voting.it doesnt include much else by way of info.

petunia - I love that word "automagically"! I think I will have to add it to my vocabulary!!

Don’t you think it’s daft that there are so many different systems ( just talking about E here). Why not a standardised one.

It’s the same throughout local authorities suzie legacy/bespoke systems with in house or contracted out support staff. I agree with you, but it would be a large ££££ job, driven by central government. I don’t know if the electoral roll software is all the same either, which I assume, the E system interfaces to.

I thought it was daft I couldn't just ring an actual human being and ask, I imagine this differs local authority to local authority too

Whilst I am a roll, the other thing that annoys me is 'the local offer'.......Look on your local authority for your 'local offer' How is using language like this accessible? Do any of you understand what it means?

Jaxjacky

It’s the same throughout local authorities suzie legacy/bespoke systems with in house or contracted out support staff. I agree with you, but it would be a large ££££ job, driven by central government. I don’t know if the electoral roll software is all the same either, which I assume, the E system interfaces to.

I was referring more to systems making it clear that if you’ve no internet/ printer you ring your la and are sent the forms plusreturn envelope. And one colour polling card for in person and one to notify you’ve a postal vote. I know all the actual forms are the same but the systems are either not clear or not being implemented properly ( see welbecks experience for example) I wasn’t talking at all about a centralised system just consistency in application between las. Only referring to E btw

Galaxy

I think the answer is to provide the means to overcome those issues not exclude them from something that the rest of society can access. So we shouldn't be saying well there are people who cant afford a phone/laptop so they should be able to do it non digitally, we should be ensuring those people can have access to technology.

Sorry, my post was badly worded - I should learn not to post in a hurry. I agree that everyone should be able to have access - my point is that those who simply 'don't want to' pay online or use the Internet in various ways should not be able to hold back the rest of us.

I know a couple of Luddites who expect everything from knitting groups to council tax payments to use outdated and cumbersome methods because they 'can't' use Facebook, or 'don't see why they should' use online banking, and I do think that this is unreasonable. These people both have smartphones and computers in their homes, with broadband connections that are used for things they want to access, so it is neither inability nor accessibility that is stopping them.

It is possible to have a FB account that is never used for anything other than to access things like group announcement pages, which are free to use and easy to access, and I don't see why someone's reluctance to get one should trump the convenience of the rest. Similarly, it costs a fortune for councils to have payments made in person or over the phone, so I don't see why this should not be the default.

I do, however, think that there should have been more credit given to the Labour promise in the last election campaign to get free broadband rolled out to everyone. It was a very democratic policy, but of course it was ridiculed. Johnson seems to be belatedly realising how important it is, so maybe we will see internet access made more widely available. It is already a requirement for benefits claimants to access the Internet, so there should definitely be easy and cheap access, both for them, and for vulnerably housed people and those on low incomes (although I would prefer a living wage to be set at a level that would cover a broadband contract, but that's another thread).

I also think that there should be some exceptions to default online activity. My MIL, for instance, is in her 90s and has never used a computer. I'm not saying that she would be incapable, but I don't think that the effort involved would be worth it at her age. People with disabilities or learning difficulties may also have problems accessing online options, and this also needs to be addressed.

Whether we like it or not, the post office we grew up with will soon be a thing of the past.

Yes, it can be difficult adjusting to the digital world, and not everybody wants to.

What you need, and obviously have not got, is a way for those who do not want a computer, or who cannot afford one to opt out of the digital world and still receive all official communications by post.

This is a matter you all need to badger your MPs into securing.

This can be done, it has been in Denmark. Here too, in pre-Covid 19 days, the libraries ran courses helping those, who were all at sea about computers, learn to use them to deal with the many and varied things that are easier if you use the Internet than if you don't.

A lot of those who had said they would never use a computer found these courses helpful and changed their minds about computers and the Internet.

Those who either won't or can't move with the times. only need to register their desire with their municipality to receive post in the old fashioned way from tax authorities, government and local government.

I do my mums shopping online at Sainsbury’s. (She is 95 and housebound)They have now gone paper free and send the receipt to me. I asked if she could have a paper receipt as she likes to know what she’s paying. Sainsbury’s said no so I have to write out the receipt by hand of everything she’s ordered and send it to her by post. I don’t have a printer so I am creating more paper by doing this.

I have a printer, but my new Lenovo laptop wouldn't turn on last year (found out the Motherboard had stopped working when it was returned).

It was still under warranty at only three months old, and they said they would email me a return label and details for collection. I said I was phoning because the laptop wouldn't turn on, so couldn't print my emails.

They were really taken aback and said could I go 'to the library or a neighbour' - as it was at the start of lockdown this was impossible. Finally found an app on my Iphone, but almost everyone, everywhere, assumes you are connected nowadays.

I believe there is a form called a Permanent Agent form from the post office. Form number P6163. Phone 03457223344.This enables a friend or neighbour to collect a pension without having to give them the pensioners PIN number. They are allocated a separate PIN number to be used with the pensioners card which only allows them access to a certain amount of money, not the whole account.

I am so glad I am of an age where I can just about use a computer and do online retail/banking etc. A friend of mine ('only' 76) has refused all along to get a mobile phone or computer and she complains a lot about 'being left out'.

I still write her letters and telephone (she lives miles away) but it is hard to get her to understand the extra effort people and companies have to go to to get and keep in touch with her

As with 'old money' and 'pounds and ounces' we are all having to adapt and move with the times. Yes it is unfair for much older people to be expected to get into the digital age especially with little or no support. Life is moving on apace and if we want to stay independent we have to find some way of keeping up

Friends, neighbours and relatives are essential in keeping our older people connected so thank you to all those who care and support their older friends and neighbours, we may all be needing you one day!