to resent the census requiring details of employer from years ago

To be brief ElderlyPerson, YABU, you are overthinking, conflating all sorts of issues, bearing grudges for whatever reason and fretting about something which is PAST and not the massive issue you have blown it up to be.
Dinner queues, early retirement, redundancy, feeling humiliated, slaves given their owners names or you feeling “branded” - FHS - calm down and aim for some perspective.

greenlady102

ElderlyPerson

greenlady102

oh good grief! You might as well say that the employer is shackled to me and has to bear the mortification of being linked to all the good stuff that I got up to after I retired.....including drinking alcohol.

But the employer is not so linked. It is just the human being who is the victim of this outrageous nastiness.

how can the link only go one way?

Because the employer need have no link to me, but I have to write its name and address on my census form every ten years or risk being fined a thousand pounds and maybe getting a criminal record, even though I have done nothing wrong and unfairly lost the job because I would not tell lies.

Yes, but why should he feel awful? if nobody commented or said anything, what was there to feel awful about? If no one noticed or ever commentated and just took it in the same incurious way we would be about the age of someone in the clas. I vagauely remember their were children at school with me who had free meals, but I wasn't quite sure who, and it wasn't anything that figured in our conversation.

I think most of us were completely oblivious to each other's home circumstances, unless we lived near them and anyway we just took other children at face value.

A photograph can contain lots of information about the past. Your clothes what you look like, past events can be etched into your face.

The questions in the census may seem random to you but the government knows what information it requires for its planning processes and asks only the questions relevant to that requirement, that is also why some questions vary from census to census.

With due respect I really think you are making a very big mountain out of a very small molehill.

I'm presuming, then that, if you have descendants, you are worried about finding it embarrassing in 100 years time when they ask you why you did such a lowly job, ElderlyPerson.

Don't worry, it will not be the only census they will research.

In the LA taught, no - one knew who had free meals or not.
Parents either paid online, or before class, each child paid their lunch money into a machine, using a personal PIN.
Even before this system was introduced, there were definitely no separate queues for children eligible for free meals.
It was done so discretely to preserve the child's dignity.
I speak as someone, who got free school meals at my posh convent school. I was humiliated every morning by a particular teacher. I never told my mother, I didn't want to upset her.

Elderlyperson, I also believe you are overthinking and whatever happened in you job, has affected your perception.

As an aside, I firmly believe all children should receive free school meals.

You never know what is going on in a child’s home, and every child should be sure of at least one hot meal a day in term time.

Of all our public spending projects, this one would do much good for comparatively little outlay.

I can see where it may bring back a bad memory of time in a person's life. I am surprised that they asked for info from 30 years ago. Many people would not be able to answer it with accuracy if they had many jobs in a particular time period. Perhaps I misunderstood your post.

But like others say, it is captured information to be used regarding the job sectors in certain areas of the country, not ultimately a snapshot of you. You should not be ashamed of what you do to support yourself. If someone perhaps just finished a university degree but no job prospects other than a fast food restaurant might feel ashamed of that period in their life, but the information might be used to see the number of people in a certain area with high levels of education compared to salary levels. It may help to bring down the cost of higher education.

Please do not take the census too personally, and know that the information will ultimately be used to improve society.

Are you saying people should lie about where they were born, Elderlyperson? My dh’s family were both India army families. My sister-in-law was also born abroad, in Africa. Because their father was India-born and nationality was only passed down through fathers back then, she wasn’t considered a British citizen but she fulfilled the requirements they wanted and a passport was issued.

I too think you’re overthinking this. What could possibly be the consequence of what job you put on the census form? If you depend on others to validate your life, maybe you need to consider changing that.

Elderlyperson I am really struggling to work out what is at the bottom of all your concerns.

To begin with, the letter and the threat of £!,000 fine is just the standard threat that is attached to any demand from the government and is just there way of saying you have to fill in this form.

It has been explained several times that no one has any interest in a single form, it is meaningles until aggregated with millions of others.

As Mawbe says YABU, you are overthinking, conflating all sorts of issues, bearing grudges for whatever reason and fretting about something which is PAST and not the massive issue you have blown it up to be. Dinner queues, early retirement, redundancy, feeling humiliated, slaves given their owners names or you feeling “branded.

Whatis it that lies underneath these concerns and is your real worry.

If this forum wasn’t mostly frequented by retired folk, I would suspect your last occupation was exotic dancer… Which it’s clearly not, so chin up, other folk have been writing much racier things on the census than you

SueDonim

Are you saying people should lie about where they were born, Elderlyperson? My dh’s family were both India army families. My sister-in-law was also born abroad, in Africa. Because their father was India-born and nationality was only passed down through fathers back then, she wasn’t considered a British citizen but she fulfilled the requirements they wanted and a passport was issued.

I too think you’re overthinking this. What could possibly be the consequence of what job you put on the census form? If you depend on others to validate your life, maybe you need to consider changing that.

Not at all.

But an official question should not be phrased in such a way as to distort the truth.

So the lady was born in a British East Africa, a British colony at the time of her birth, She was not born in Tanzania, though that was the country that contained the place where she was born when the census was taken.

My objection over the census question that has upset me is that the rotten event was over, gone into the past, I have done other things, just not in paid employment as I could not get another job. My age went against me, and my experience was mostly highly specialised anyway and most jobs wanted specific experience. Then came the 2011 census and it dug it up again for me, then again in 2021. If I live until 2031 I expect that I will have to go through it all again.

I doubt if it is just me. There are people in their 40s now probably who lost their job due to stores closing down as in the news, who may never work again and will have to keep writing it down every ten years.

What frightened me into submission was that in 2001 a man was fined because he wanted to put English as his nationality, but was required to put British, whereas Welsh people and Scottish people could put their nationality.

It can be ambiguous to put British because being British does not necessarily mean that one can live in the United Kingdom as of right, whereas Full United Kingdom Citizen does.

As for validation of my life, that is an interesting topic.

Some people view others based on the car they drive, with no regard as to whether it is paid for or not.

The NHS and public libraries view people just because they exist.

I have done reasonably well I suppose. Not as well as many, more fortunate than many - somewhere in the middle.

I like to think that whatever people have done to me or that I have had to put up with that I have always been honest, considerate and fair to others.

I don't get it when politicians get some movie star or singer up on stage to endorse them - alright, I like their movie or their singing but their political opinion is of no more validity than that of anybody else. I wonder if it is counterproductive, both for politician and 'celebrity'.

muffinthemoo

If this forum wasn’t mostly frequented by retired folk, I would suspect your last occupation was exotic dancer… Which it’s clearly not, so chin up, other folk have been writing much racier things on the census than you

I imagined that ElderlyPerson could be male, muffinthemoo

That conjures up quite a picture!

M0nica

Elderlyperson I am really struggling to work out what is at the bottom of all your concerns.

To begin with, the letter and the threat of £!,000 fine is just the standard threat that is attached to any demand from the government and is just there way of saying you have to fill in this form.

It has been explained several times that no one has any interest in a single form, it is meaningles until aggregated with millions of others.

As Mawbe says YABU, you are overthinking, conflating all sorts of issues, bearing grudges for whatever reason and fretting about something which is PAST and not the massive issue you have blown it up to be. Dinner queues, early retirement, redundancy, feeling humiliated, slaves given their owners names or you feeling “branded.

Whatis it that lies underneath these concerns and is your real worry.

You refer to them as slaves and owners. Lots of teachers, books and television programmes did and do. I say victims of slavery and their oppressors. There is a difference.

Your question in the last sentence is insightful. I don't know offhand. I shall need to think about that. Maybe you and others might have ideas.

Callistemon

muffinthemoo

If this forum wasn’t mostly frequented by retired folk, I would suspect your last occupation was exotic dancer… Which it’s clearly not, so chin up, other folk have been writing much racier things on the census than you

I imagined that ElderlyPerson could be male, muffinthemoo

That conjures up quite a picture!

I am male. I stated that in

www.gransnet.com/forums/other_subjects/1297377-Why-is-drinking-alcohol-so-popular

I don't remember offhand if you posted in that thread.

I would not know if you just read it.

That's probably where I got the idea.

EP I have read and followed this thread and I’m sad that a number of events in your past seem to be eating you up inside. Maybe you need to discuss this with someone so you can, as most of us do, accept that was then, this is now and enjoy life in the present.
I filled out the census as I do most obligatory forms, factually, including my, birth place as Pakistan, not for a millisecond did I think any more about it.
Your past is that, past; try and move away from it for today, the now.

Someone might have lost a good job through redundancy and then, doing their best to support themselves and any dependents they might have by taking whatever job they could get, so now they are branded with that job.

I do wonder ElderlyPerson if you are the sort of person who feels one is defined by ones job? He’s a lawyer, shes a doctor, somebody else is a plumber”
If so, that is a very blinkered and class-conscious way of looking at the world. An opera singer I know of had to take a job as a delivery driver during lockdown, -there being no furlough in the Arts, an actor is stacking shelves at Tesco. That has not made them any less talented, just responsible adults who had a family to feed and a mortgage to pay.
Would you view them differently?
I wonder what they felt about their Census form, but suspect it was the least of their worries!

MawBe

^Someone might have lost a good job through redundancy and then, doing their best to support themselves and any dependents they might have by taking whatever job they could get, so now they are branded with that job.^

I do wonder ElderlyPerson if you are the sort of person who feels one is defined by ones job? He’s a lawyer, shes a doctor, somebody else is a plumber”
If so, that is a very blinkered and class-conscious way of looking at the world. An opera singer I know of had to take a job as a delivery driver during lockdown, -there being no furlough in the Arts, an actor is stacking shelves at Tesco. That has not made them any less talented, just responsible adults who had a family to feed and a mortgage to pay.
Would you view them differently?
I wonder what they felt about their Census form, but suspect it was the least of their worries!

Actually no. I have always tried to avoid that. More that 'he is employed as a plumber' and not 'he is a plumber', if mentioned at all. I have always resented people who want to know "what do you do?" and "what is your occupation?" and especially "who is your employer". It can sometimes be relevant, such as if someone visits the doctor feeling ill, but maybe their hobby is more relevant to the diagnosis.

Yet a doctor is a doctor because it is a qualification. Sort of an attitude that a qualification is freehold, a job is leasehold - you might get turned out through no fault of your own.

No I would not view them differently, but the census form would try to deem them as that is who they are - perhaps that is the root of my resentment, that I am being wrongly assessed. Not that I want to be assessed, but if I must be assessed then that assessment should be holistic not just seizing on an unrepresentative sampling. Though my answer was just factual about the job, nothing about the issue of refusing to tell lies, though I remember that when I had to fill in the form.

Jaxjacky

EP I have read and followed this thread and I’m sad that a number of events in your past seem to be eating you up inside. Maybe you need to discuss this with someone so you can, as most of us do, accept that was then, this is now and enjoy life in the present.
I filled out the census as I do most obligatory forms, factually, including my, birth place as Pakistan, not for a millisecond did I think any more about it.
Your past is that, past; try and move away from it for today, the now.

I am discussing it, that is why I started this thread.

Thank you for reading it. Some of the things that happened did not happen to me. Many things happened to others.
I paid dinner money and thus not singled out.

I had moved away from the issue of that job. The census people keep bringing it up.

Perhaps I should think of them as just inconsiderate silly people going to work.

ElderlyPerson
I assure you that you are not the sum of your last (miserable) job experience. You are beyond that now and have survived. Good for you!

If you are really really bothered by it maybe you could do a week or two proofreading for someone or maybe write poetry and attempt to get it published in the next 10 years for example. Maybe you can become a self-employed artist or craftsperson? I don't know your skills...
If you really want to I think you may be able to "overwrite" this bit of your past with a one-off short term job.

Otherwise, please try to be pleased you are out! I left one job where my manager was both horrible and incompetent - I'd be happy to put that job on the census to be honest.
It was a miracle I survived!

But who do you think is going to be interested in this info in a personal way? Elderlyperson? I cannot see why it bothers you so much. Fill in the form, two seconds, job done.

but the census form would try to deem them as that is who they are

No Elderlyperson a census form cannot “deem” or judge or assess and despite your protestations to the contrary you do not want to be identified with whatever job it was you ended up doing.
I believe you need to face that truth, tell us on GN what it was - you are anonymous here- and get it out of your system. It is eating away at you and things have blown up out of all proportion.

MawBe

^but the census form would try to deem them as that is who they are^

No Elderlyperson a census form cannot “deem” or judge or assess and despite your protestations to the contrary you do not want to be identified with whatever job it was you ended up doing.
I believe you need to face that truth, tell us on GN what it was - you are anonymous here- and get it out of your system. It is eating away at you and things have blown up out of all proportion.

The job as describable is fine. The salary was lower than average but that does not get asked, so it looks alright.

I am wondering if the indignation of the lady in another thread who saw a shoplifter and the shoplifter realised she had seen him and put his finger to his mouth as a 'shh' and resented the attempt to involve her in his shoplifting is the clue.

Perhaps I needed to write the name and address and write the duties then add that after a while I was told explicitly of an additional duty of a need for me to tell lies and I refused and a week later I was dismissed on purported grounds of incapability. Perhaps I feel that I have been dragged into making the job look reasonable and respectable and not what it turned out to be. That I have constructively condoned it. Indignant like the lady in the shop in the other thread.

Elderlyperson We are going round in circles. A census is a counting of people and the government also ask questions that will help them plan how and where resources collected by taxation should be spent. It is a snapshot, not a judgement and all it does is count things, No one, but no one is remotely interested in your personal data, only what it reveals when mixed with +/- 30 million other questionnaires.

Redundancy does not mean being sacked. The word 'redundancy' makes that clear, the earliest definition of the word means 'a superfluity' of words, of books, of vegetables.
I have done some googling this eveening and every site I have looked at, including, the government site makes it clear that the word redundant only applies when someone leaves an employer because the employer has more staff than they need at that point in time. If you are sacked for poor work or a misdemeanour you are NOT made redundant, you are sacked or dismissed. Although the phrase redundancy is sometimes used to sugar the pill of a sacking, for compassionate reasons. When redundancies are happening someone may be given the choice of applying for redundancy rather than getting the sack.

Why you see redundancy as being something to be ashamed of I do not know. It is nothing special, nobody judges anyone on it, just commiserates them and bores them with their redundancy story.

I do not think I know anyone who hasn't been made redundant at some time, sometimes multiple times and being a professional is no protection, and plenty of self-employed people go bankrupt. It includes, me, my DH and both children.

I do agree with others, that perhaps you should seek professional help to deal with your demons. GN is an outlet, and we can float ideas and try to give some help and advice, but it seems to me that you are spending too much time thinking and over thinking the past, you are asking for help, but refusing it when it is given, asking for explanations and then ignoring them.

Do you live alone? Perhaps you should see your GP and explain your over thinking and he can direct you to where you can get help.

That doing so has made me dirty.