Getting through to a doctor

Well done Candelle for speaking the truth. Don’t allow anyone to bully you into silence. Don’t take any notice of how dare you. You dare because it is the truth.

It is those patients who go private to jump the waiting list who make the waiting list longer for NHS patients. The surgeon who does your operation under BUPA or you can afford to pay privately is the same surgeon who also works in the NHS. It’s common for a surgeon to work Monday morning out patients clinic Monday afternoon operating in the NHS Monday evening seeing private patients same on Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday the surgeon may go to different NHS hospitals in the week. Then at weekends Saturday and Sunday operating at a private hospitals. It is no wonder mistakes are made when you know how many hours a week the surgeon has worked. The surgeons become tired so they tell the NHS appointments to reduce their list, hence the waiting list just gets longer.

My husband's surgery is terrible, I don't think we ever got a call back during last year's lockdown, even when we were 7th in the queue at 10.30 in the morning. We were sitting by the landline all day.
On the other hand I rang my surgery yesterday to make an appt for a vaccination. I was 4th in the queue and was through in no time at all.

Some GPS surgeries are run by the NHS and some are run as a business by the GPS buying into the business.This is very lucrative for the business GPS. They can run their practices as they like.so long as they reach their targets for doing various jobs,eg immunisations,cervical smears,diabetic checks etc.
GPs employed by the NHS don’t earn anything like the money the business GPS do,that’s why they have difficulty recruiting them.

I would be good if there was someone from government looking at these threads!

Sleepygran

Some GPS surgeries are run by the NHS and some are run as a business by the GPS buying into the business.This is very lucrative for the business GPS. They can run their practices as they like.so long as they reach their targets for doing various jobs,eg immunisations,cervical smears,diabetic checks etc.
GPs employed by the NHS don’t earn anything like the money the business GPS do,that’s why they have difficulty recruiting them.

I believe our local GP surgery is one of these GP group businesses. DH and I have had no problems getting to discuss any issues with a medical practitioner - that may be a GP or a Practice Nurse. Though we have had no need for urgent advice so far. The reception staff are most helpful too. We're in an urban area with a choice of surgeries and hospitals.

We're also with Benenden, so if there are delays, they can always advise. Pretty fortunate, I know, hearing some of these tales of woe.

I don't think we will ever go back to face to face appointments as routine. How could we, with fewer medically qualified people on the ground?

I blame years and years of austerity - which was always a con, imo, leading to a much privatised health service.

Yes there is a shortage of GPs which makes it difficult for everyone. However, over 64% are part time. This needs to be addressed as the problem will only worsen.

Gwyneth the reason many GPs are part time is because they are women with children. Surely you’re not suggesting that the law passed under Tony Blair’s government, which gave working women the right to have their hours adjusted when returning to work after maternity leave, shouldn’t have this right? Why would the law treat female doctors differently than other workers?
There are many reasons why there are too few GPs. One is that insufficient doctors are trained, that’s down to government of course. Another reason is that many qualified doctors don’t want to be GPs. How can government change that? And lastly, because GPs are paid much more, and work far fewer hours, and have longer consultation time per patient, in other countries such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, many GPs are choosing to vote with their feet and move to countries with better working conditions. If a GP were to read this thread, how do you think he/she would react? It would reinforce what they already know, that British patients are unappreciative of the long hours they work, and British patients appear to think they are paid too much. GPs do know that they are disliked and complained about, that’s why they leave and go to countries where they are appreciated.

Sleepygran

Some GPS surgeries are run by the NHS and some are run as a business by the GPS buying into the business.This is very lucrative for the business GPS. They can run their practices as they like.so long as they reach their targets for doing various jobs,eg immunisations,cervical smears,diabetic checks etc.
GPs employed by the NHS don’t earn anything like the money the business GPS do,that’s why they have difficulty recruiting them.

Where did you learn this? It’s complete rubbish!

Midwifebi6

It is those patients who go private to jump the waiting list who make the waiting list longer for NHS patients. The surgeon who does your operation under BUPA or you can afford to pay privately is the same surgeon who also works in the NHS. It’s common for a surgeon to work Monday morning out patients clinic Monday afternoon operating in the NHS Monday evening seeing private patients same on Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday the surgeon may go to different NHS hospitals in the week. Then at weekends Saturday and Sunday operating at a private hospitals. It is no wonder mistakes are made when you know how many hours a week the surgeon has worked. The surgeons become tired so they tell the NHS appointments to reduce their list, hence the waiting list just gets longer.

More incorrect information. I think you make it up as you go along.

I am outraged by the lack of face to face appointments. Shop workers have worked right through the pandimic and now GP's do not do ear syringing any more. You have to have it done privately, and they do not do eyes any more. You have to book a private GP. This is disgusting. A friend of mine took herself to the walkin centre because she could not get a GP appointment.

I rang the surgery this morning. I was 14th in the queue so left it on speaker till it got to me (one person took nearly 10 minutes to sort out!) My GP has retired but is now working a couple of days a week to help out. I was able to check when he will be there next so that I can ring and book a phone call. Considering that they are doing a 5 day a week drop in vaccination clinic as well I think they are doing brilliantly.

About 10 months ago after noticing blood in my poo I rang 111 as it was August bank holiday weekend. After a long conversation I was told a doctor would ring me back. One did, at about 10pm and I went through the whole conversation again. He told me I needed to see a doctor in person. I asked what I should do if I couldn't get an appointment. He said go to A&E!
After the bank holiday was over I rang my GP surgery. When I eventually got through I was told I could have a telephone appointment with a doctor. I explained I'd already had one of those with 111 and had been told I needed to see a doctor. They said there were no appointments available. I then said in that case I'd been told to go to A&E so would do that. Interestingly in less than an hour I was in the surgery with the doctors gloved finger where the sun don't shine! Not exactly face to face but hey! It is possible to see a doctor but threatening them with going to A&E was unfortunately a necessary step I had to take. I'd never have dared do that if the 111 doctor hadn't told me to, but it delivered the desired result.
Unfortunately things haven't improved and I'm still waiting for a doctor to call me to discuss the results of blood tests I had in March to review my medication. I put a reminder note in with my repeat prescription slip today and will see if that gets a response. I have better things to do with my time than sit on hold from position 24 to position 13 in the queue before being cut off - the scenario last time I tried to phone!

I had one lady on phone last week (I work with Community nurses) who didn't know what to do, she'd contacted GPs about her husband, she suspected he had an infection and had recently had surgery, was told they couldn't book an appointment as she'd had one for her daughter earlier in the week ....... My dad, earlier this year, when he went for his 2nd Covid vac asked a nurse at the centre of it was true the doctor's had all emigrated.

I think it's pretty clear that it isn't a one size fits all scenario.
Some practices are doing well, some not.
Pointing that out is quite reasonable, I think.
It's not a personal insult to anyone who has doctors in their family.

I didn’t say they were female maddyone the figure that I read just stated that over 64% of GPS were part time. Clearly more doctors need to be trained but perhaps some commitment should also be made to work in the NHS for a specified period of time. Otherwise training more doctors is not going to solve the problem.

Geyneth thank you for clarification. Nonetheless most of the part time doctors are female, my daughter was among them, but her husband worked full time in his Practice, and further hours at the Covid Hub, often not arriving home until midnight on Covid Hub days, which was usually about three nights a week, and one afternoon at the weekend as well. My daughter and her husband have three young children, seven year old twins, and a three year old, so of course, at this stage in her life, she needs to work part time.

Dancinggran, your post made me all smile. Of course not all our doctors have emigrated as the old man thought, but sadly a great many have. I don’t think we can force doctors to work in the NHS for some arbitrary length of time, anymore than we make teachers, lawyers, accountants, architects, or anyone else work in this country for a specific length of time. Let’s not forget that students pay over £9000 a year for tuition, so how could we legally do that? It’s an affront to human rights and dignity in my opinion. Doctors do not belong to us, they are people with the same rights as the rest of us.

maddyone

Sleepygran

Some GPS surgeries are run by the NHS and some are run as a business by the GPS buying into the business.This is very lucrative for the business GPS. They can run their practices as they like.so long as they reach their targets for doing various jobs,eg immunisations,cervical smears,diabetic checks etc.
GPs employed by the NHS don’t earn anything like the money the business GPS do,that’s why they have difficulty recruiting them.

Where did you learn this? It’s complete rubbish!

No, it's not complete rubbish, as I 'm sure you know. There are elements of truth.

Firstly, there are differences in pay for GP partners and salaried GPs, who are sometimes employed by corporate organisations (the number is rising).

Secondly, the amount GPs are paid for their services does depend to an extent on hitting various targets. For one reason or another, I have sometimes refused to attend annual diabetic reviews. The practice nurse actually rang me one year and was quite angry with me and admitted the practice wouldn't be able to hit a certain target unless I attended.

I have a very close friend who is a GP and she has explained to me how the target system works. It frustrates her a lot, but unfortunately she has to do what the practice manager decrees.

maddyone

Well done Candelle for speaking the truth. Don’t allow anyone to bully you into silence. Don’t take any notice of how dare you. You dare because it is the truth.

It is also the truth that many ill patients aren't getting the care they need. GP appointments aren't some kind of add-on which people request for fun.

Candelle's post comes across as confrontational and blaming patients for daring to be ill and needing medical care. Unfortunately, there are also some GPs who also give that impression.

It is just ridiculous, what on earth are these doctors doing for their money. I for one am getting fed up of being seen and treats as a walking bio-hazard instead of a human being!

Jang

It is just ridiculous, what on earth are these doctors doing for their money. I for one am getting fed up of being seen and treats as a walking bio-hazard instead of a human being!

Read the full thread. We're short of GPs, they're working flat out as has been explained on here more than once. Some surgeries are clearly better organised than others.

I went up to the surgery and waited outside at 6.30 on a rainy blustery morning to get my DH an appointment. We had given up trying to get through on the phone. The surgery opens at 7 and there was a queue by 6.45

Any one who voted Tory voted for this.

GPs have been very lazy. My GP re phoned me back after all the waiting and feffing about you talked about, and then it was hard to hear her, as she was banging about in the kitchen. In no other job you would get away with this behaviour. We should all write letters of complaint.