To think William Morris and Gransnet are poles apart

JaneJudge

Callistemon21

What a strange turn this thread has taken.

Killing one's spouse vis the medium of William Morris wallpaper?

I prefer the hammer and rug method myself but why ruin a perfectly good rug..

A frozen leg of lamb then inviting the detectives to dinner is worth a thought.

Arsenic was commonly used in cosmetics too.
It can be found in quite a number of common foodstuffs too.

It killed Napoleon didn’t it?
His wallpaper?

I ♥️ Tales of the Unexpected

And Jane Austen apparently.

It can be found in quite a number of common foodstuffs too.

Still? I assume it must be in trace quantities, as it was often added to food in small amounts (too small for the victim to notice) and was definitely fatal. Apparently people used to insure children to pay for funerals, when child mortality was very high and relying on a paupers' funeral was a social disgrace. Before regulation, you could insure with several companies at once, and a number of parents (and so-called baby farmers) realised that real profits could be made. Mary Ann Cotton was probably the most famous example (as played by Joanne Froggatt in Dark Angel), but there were others, and very probably more who were never caught.

Oh, wow!

Googled arsenic and it seems there’s a problem with it in rice.

No more than a couple of portions a week?

How can that be though if you look at countries who eat it daily? I feel am being dragged down a rabbit hole

Dodgy stuff, rice!
It can develop toxins if left warm.

Yes, I wondered that Galaxy.

Well this is fascinating.

Basmati rice grown in Pakistan has the the least arsenic. White rice with the outer grain removed is better than brown since arsenic accumulates mostly in the outer layers.

The main concern is for children’s diets with the rise in demand for things like rice milk, rice baby food, rice cakes as snacks etc and obviously the ratio of rice consumed to body weight.

Actually it’s a bit alarming that you could think you were giving children a healthy diet and actually be overload them with arsenic.

Some GF bread contains rice flour

Jane Austen is thought to have died as a result of lupus, not arsenic poisoning - although somebody wrote a fiction book based on her being poisoned with arsenic.
chawtonhouse.org/2021/03/the-death-of-jane-austen/

Victorian women were also poisoned by arsenic in their clothing! I learnt that on a visit to a NT house. Arsenic was used to dye textiles green and this meant woman were slowly absorbing arsenic through their skin. Let’s not forget the workers making these items, too.

Here’s a gruesome article about it. jezebel.com/the-arsenic-dress-how-poisonous-green-pigments-terrori-1738374597

and milliners were poisoned by mercury

It was a bright green pigment that contained the arsenic, from a compound of copper arsenite. Vivid chemical dyes were a new thing in the 19th Century, and all the rage. It wasn't just William Morris's wallpaper that used the green dyes, it was very common.

"That arsenic was poisonous was certainly not a secret; every Victorian home had a bit of the powder lying around for rats and mice, and people likely knew tales of the “inheritance powder” being used for murder. Yet they also applied arsenic cosmetics, gave their children toys painted with arsenic, wore dresses and hats dyed with arsenic, and ate meat dipped into it to keep away flies.

(I have a death certificate of one of my ancestors where the cause of death is "arsenic poisoning" but no mention of an enquiry, and I can find no sign of a coroner's report. Arsenic was so common that accidental deaths must have been frequent. )

Of course, very small regular doses of arsenic were taken by some middle-aged men. It made their hair shiny and thick, improved their skin, and gave them more stamina in important (to them) areas where they felt they were wilting. There is a detective story by Dorothy Sayers where a murderer had deflected suspicion by sharing his victim's poisoned meal, and surviving because he had been accustoming himself to arsenic for months beforehand. Lord Peter Whimsy noticed the luxuriant barnet and unmasked the villain.)

In some kind of disconnect, people believed that only by licking the walls would they get poisoned, or only by the green colors. In this way, it wasn’t too different from the radium cosmetics that took off in the mid-20th century, even while the potentially dangerous power of radiation was evident. Left untouched, Victorian wallpaper could still release flakes of arsenic into the air or produce arsenical gas when conditions were damp.

There is a parallel too with the use of asbestos. and luminous radioactive paint on the hands and numerals of clocks and watches.

Casdon

Jane Austen is thought to have died as a result of lupus, not arsenic poisoning - although somebody wrote a fiction book based on her being poisoned with arsenic.
chawtonhouse.org/2021/03/the-death-of-jane-austen/

That was very interesting. I read the longer article. It’s convincing. Thanks?

Arsenic was the asbestos of its day. It was suspected that it was a problem in textiles and things like wallpaper, but there was profit being made, so the production continued long after it should have been.

Lead was used in theatrical makeup up until at least the thirties. My mother, as cook in a nursing home that had a lot of theatrical patients, cooked for one famous actress/music hall star (Florrie Desmond) who was very ill because of it.

William Morriss described the uproar about the arsenic in wallpaper as "bitten by witch fever". There's a lovely book of the same title about the patterns that were popular and the use of arsenic in Victorian times.
www.amazon.co.uk/Bitten-Witch-Fever-Wallpaper-Victorian/dp/0500518386?tag=gransnetforum-21
His family owned an arsenic mine.

It wasn't just William Morris's wallpaper that used the green dyes, it was very common.
No, it wasn't just him, and arguably when it started being used it wouldn't have been known that it was harmful. The problem with Morris's involvement is that he was simultaneously making a lot of money from the production of arsenic, and even when it became suspected of being harmful he continued to use it in his products.

What wonderful source of information and entertainment GN is, from Morris, murder and arsenic in rice.
I have read that if you rinse rice well then par boil for 5 mins in preboiled water, then drain and rinse and cook with smaller amount of water til absorbed it gets rid of 75% arsenic. Most important with young kids I think.
If ever I get on to Mastermind my specialist subject will be Gransnet ?

There is a brilliant book all about stuff that they used to put in food.
It was book of the week in Radio 4.

I started a thread about it in the Book Section on here, because I couldn’t remember its title.

And guess what, I still can’t remember it’s bloody title

I never rinse rice. I am probably lucky to be alive.

This is the book

Fanny. I’ve sent you a pm