Assigned female at birth

Galaxy

They are of the female sex. And it turns out that sex is quite important for transpeoples healthcare. It looks like there is not enough data about the affirmation model and some countries are now not following that approach Its not just gender critcal people who are saying this its those who are investigating the care on offer.

I'm not talking sex Galaxy I'm asking about gender. What do the gender critical believe about transmen. It's a simple question.

They are of the female sex. And it turns out that sex is quite important for transpeoples healthcare. It looks like there is not enough data about the affirmation model and some countries are now not following that approach Its not just gender critcal people who are saying this its those who are investigating the care on offer.

Doodledog

What needs explaining, trisher. I'm not sure I understand the question, but I'll have a go:

A transman is a woman who identifies as a man.

Women have cervixes, so transmen have cervices.

Cervixes can become cancerous, and smear tests can detect cervical cancer, so women are called for the tests.

Transmen, if they are being called for tests, must be on doctors' records as female, as that is what they are, so will be invited to attend for a test.

If they are not listed with a GP (perhaps because of moving house) their NHS number will identify them, but in any case they will be aware that their bodies are female whatever is going on in their heads.

Having made the decision to 'identify' as male, I assume that transmen will have considered their biology as much as, if not more than, the women who will also be invited for testing, so are at least, if not more likely to be aware of what a cervix is, and the fact that they have one.

So they are included in the invitations, and are at no more risk of cancer than other women. They are not being ignored, and they get the healthcare they need.

Have a missed anything?

You've missed out of course exactly what the gender critical reasoning is.
And the fact that as they no longer identify as a woman transmen may prefer not to be adressed as one.
So could you possibly explain what the gender critical say about transmen. I really don't under stand it. I have on many occasions seen posts saying transwomen are not women.
So are transmen not men and therefore women?

Insults? From the be kind side? Surely not?

Excellent post, Molly.

The insults are scraping the barrel these days, aren't they?

Perfectly identified and explained MollyGo

Herefornow

And the folk that think all trans women are sexual predators... Are you the same camp that believe all Muslims are terrorists?

Not one single post on here, as far as I can see, has said that all trans women are sexual predators.

And to suggest that we / they think all Muslims are terrorists, is just insulting.

Clearly sexual predators - from any demographic are a minority and - particularly considering the number of Muslims living in the UK - the same principle applies to them. As does the number of terrorists belonging to any group / faith.

Trans woman does not = sexual predator
Muslim does not = terrorist

But sexual predators among trans women do exist, as do the activists who make threats against women and girls, as they did the other day, becoming violent in the process.

And so do terrorists - which is why government authorises surveillance and rehabilitation programmes.

They do however exist in sufficient numbers to warrant concern and the need to re-act and deal with them.

But they are still a minority. And in the case of TWAs - a very vocal and, often, aggressive minority. As witnessed.

Your comment has a lot in common with right-wing tabloid, heavy-print, headlines that shout about "Muslim Terrorists in the UK" or "PC gone mad" (when referring to LGBT matters"... you are both indulging in disingenuous, dramatic 'headlines' to engineer a thought-process in a particular way.

Women and girls want protection from predators. The general public wants to go about its business without the risk of being caught up in a terrorist incident. But no women - nor the general public a large- if they and it have common sense and intelligence, actually believe what you are suggesting.

Safe spaces for women and girls who have been sexually assaulted - by men - do not want to share that space with anyone who has a penis. And they want the right to say so without being labelled transphobic, or being threatened that they will be "raped to death". They want to go on marches without having to read the legend on a trans woman's T shirt "I punch terfs" written on a background of fake blood.

"The problem here is male violence. The category of self-declared trans women includes many with post-pubescent male strength, no surgical alteration of genitalia, and a sexual orientation towards females. And, even currently, gender reassignment can legally change sex category on birth certificates. This leaves the future of “same-sex” spaces unclear. Note that this is emphatically not a worry that self-declared trans women are particularly dangerous or more prone to sexual violence. It’s rather that we have no evidence that self-declared trans women deviate from male statistical norms in relevant ways. (The Spectator, 2018)

Galaxy

Could you point out where I have spread hatred VS.

Galaxy, She was very careful not to specify either who she means, or what the hatred consists of.
I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt about the spreading hatred.

After all she could mean the males’s hatred practised towards female patients by males pretending to be female so they have access to female patients for whatever reason.
Or men’s hatred of women’s success leading to them demanding to compete in female competitions where they have an unfair advantage.
Or male hatred of traumatised women who dare to feel unsafe and want males excluded from the female refuges.

It’s a difficult one to guess isn’t it?

And the folk that think all trans women are sexual predators... Are you the same camp that believe all Muslims are terrorists?

Only those who are incapable of critical thinking would come up with that analogy. What a deeply offensive remark to make, shame on you for that. Perhaps, before agreeing that that statement was acceptable, you might like to cast a thought for those in the Muslim community who are transgender and suffer under pain of death if their families and peers discover their "secret life". Absolutely shameful.

Herefornow

And the folk that think all trans women are sexual predators... Are you the same camp that believe all Muslims are terrorists?

Which folk are you talking about, Herefornow?

I have never seen anyone on GN suggest that all transwomen are sexual predators. Perhaps you could point us in the right direction, as I'm sure there are posters who would want to take this point of view to task.

Herefornow No.
The accusation about the folk that think all trans women are sexual predators. is usually hurled at posters who have said, time and time again that they are only concerned about ill-intentioned transwomen who seek to erode female rights.

None of the Muslims I know are terrorist, but unfortunately some are.

Galaxy

Could you point out where I have spread hatred VS.

Suggesting that those who see sex and gender as separate would also see religion and terrorism as the same is not only ridiculous but also offensive, and shows extreme intolerance towards those of a different opinion.

Wouldn't it be better if people could just be kind?

Herefornow

So... A transman is a woman, they can pretend otherwise all they want in their day to day life but they will be called to screening tests as a woman and if they choose not to attend, and there are consequences to that, that's their own problem for choosing to live in fantasyland.

Is that about the size of it?

I wouldn't have put it like that, and would never blame anyone for their ill health; but the bottom line is that transmen, by definition, have female biology and so will be called for female screening. What would you prefer to see happen?

You can treat them as any gender you like, if you dont treat people medically by sex you will cause them endless harm.

Personally I support their right to define themselves as they wish, to ask that their gender choice be respected and that any healthcare they need should treat them as the gender they ask

Well, in some cases they just can't, trisher.

If an intact male who wants to be defined as a female comes to hospital needing to be catheterised it just won't be possible.

The length of a male urethra is around 18 to 20 cm. The length of a female urethra is around 3 to 4 cm. This means that a female catheter is much shorter than a male one. So a male catheter is approximately 30-40 cm long and a female catheter between 7 and 20 cm long.

Could you point out where I have spread hatred VS.

Tries to explain slowly. I dont think all men are sexual predators, but I dont think any men should be in female spaces. My brother is very nice he has no place in female spaces.

No amount of wittering on about gender dysphoria and how they just want to be their true authentic selves give them a free pass to abuse, attack, rape and assault anybody; male or female. Attempts to invalidate their victims minimises their feelings, their identity and their rights to live a peaceful and authentic life.

Herefornow

It's am incredibly dangerous way of thinking that can and does lead to emotional or physical violence done against a minority group, yet those spreading fear and hatred will not take any responsibility for that. Simply because they don't understand how it feels or what it means to actually be trans I no excuse to do this

And the folk that think all trans women are sexual predators... Are you the same camp that believe all Muslims are terrorists?

Herefornow Yes.

So... A transman is a woman, they can pretend otherwise all they want in their day to day life but they will be called to screening tests as a woman and if they choose not to attend, and there are consequences to that, that's their own problem for choosing to live in fantasyland.

Is that about the size of it?

VioletSky
The NHS explains very clearly what gender dysphoria is.
What a lovely blanket statement. The NHS is an organisation involving hospitals, medical staff, maintenance staff etc. at least provide the precise information about who explains clearly.
In the same blanket terminology,
The NHS also explained very clearly that a woman could not have been raped because no man was in the hospital.
This was later proved to be untrue so I’m not really placing much faith in the NHS.

VioletSky

The NHS explains very clearly what gender dysphoria is

It also states that trans men may not be called for screening if they have changed their name but that trans women will be called for breast screening should they have transitioned far enough to grow breast tissue.

I don't know why it doesn't mention prostate checks so I might see if there is a way to contact someone and ask if there is a reason for that I don't understand.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

"The GP is also responsible for making appropriate changes to patient record systems to reflect the patient’s desired future gender role and to ensure that such changes facilitate screening for physiologically appropriate risks. For Male-to-Female patients, this includes a theoretical risk of breast and prostate cancer, but not cervical cancer.

GMC - Ethical Guidance

Well done Doodle yet again the voice of reason and clarity ??