Assigned female at birth

Mollygo

Interesting that Finland, Sweden and The Netherlands are stopping chemical treatments of young people. The UK is moving in that direction but the US still sees nothing wrong in it and a Canadian father was imprisoned for calling his biologically female child a daughter.

There's a bit more to the story of the Canadian father who was jailed, and it's important to look at the facts rather than swallow the dramatic headlines.

The father opposes the medical treatment his child is undergoing, and the 14 year old has applied for a 'protection order' to restrain the father from publishing, speaking or giving interviews about this case or about personal and medical information.

He has refused to do this, so is in contempt of court. Which is not the same as simply being imprisoned for calling his child his daughter.

Much as it worries me that a 14 year old is making life-changing decisions that could negatively affect the rest of their life - and being encouraged by the school and others - it doesn't help to sensationalise the issue. Contempt of court is contempt of court, regardless.

I sympathise with both the father and the child - but, and this is just a personal opinion, I think 14 is too young an age to make such decisions. This child is too young to join the military, too young to vote, too young to marry, yet is making complex and far-reaching decisions which are normally entrusted to adults on maturity.

Are hormones not chemicals?

Mollygo just curious, why "chemical treatment" not hormone treatment?

Interesting that Finland, Sweden and The Netherlands are stopping chemical treatments of young people. The UK is moving in that direction but the US still sees nothing wrong in it and a Canadian father was imprisoned for calling his biologically female child a daughter.

A lot of changes happen in puberty that cannot be easily undone and by the time people are 18,those changes are usually finished.

And if those changes are disrupted by hormone treatment, they also are irreversible by 18.

Indeed, effort should be made to prevent medication being doled out to any but those who do not respond to any other approach.
At present, that effort is not being made.

Thankyou all or your comments

volver

But lesbians are women. Usually. And what about non-binary people?

Och, I'm away back under my rock. This is too hard.

Some lesbians have a penis. HTH.

Because I prefer to answer for myself

I think it's a difficult one.

A lot of changes happen in puberty that cannot be easily undone and by the time people are 18,those changes are usually finished.

So balancing the dysphoria and resulting mental illness those changes cause against those who realise transition was not the right choice must be incredibly difficult.

I don't know how we endure this doesn't happen but every effort must be made to prevent it

This is appalling, as is any physical or chemical change implemented before a child really understands what the potential implications for his/her future are. Some 18 year olds are
Sorry FarNorth
The arguments raised here (from previous experience) will probably comment on difference between here and the US, the fact that is only one instance (small numbers of damage don’t count for some) and the lack of proof that the comments on this website are true.
However, this is from a report which some will find inconvenient.
Medicalization is aggressive, experimental, and dangerous. It is often irreversible and involves lifetime (FDA off-label) drugs.

Medicalization has not been shown to be:
X Necessary to heal gender dysphoria (time/psychotherapy sometimes succeed). Do not “conflate treatment, in the broadest sense, with physical intervention”
X Safe: there are known medical dangers to the heart (also here), bones, brain, endocrine, immune system, and fertility. Also unknown are the long term drug/surgery risks (high mortality is seen).
X Effective for improving mental health (including suicidality; mental health outcome evidence is low quality evidence ref,ref,ref). Even after transitioning, there is a similar psychopathology to those with mental issues.Research claiming otherwise is flawed (ref,ref, see also suicide risk essays: ref,ref,ref, ref). Some people are in fact harmed and there is an unknown rising number of people trying to undo their medical transitions (detransitioners). It’s often 4-10 years post medicalization when/if transition fails (here are some reasons/ issues). It’s reportedly painful.

My daughter was diagnosed with anxiety at age 4 and peaked again at age 12 and has been uncontrollable since. Right after she diagnosed herself as transgender at age 15, I had switched her to Children’s Hospital Primary Care, Smithville, New Jersey. After 5 mins of meeting her, without background on her anxiety or self esteem issues, they sent me out of the room and told her to go to a clinic at Children’s Hospital in Philadelphia, PA for hormone treatment.

Three years later, my daughter was having issues with adrenals (high cortisol). I took her to an endocrinologist at Children’s Hospital in Philadelphia PA to see if there was a medical issue going on causing her uncontrollable anxiety. Again within 5 mins of meeting her, they sent me out of the room and offered her hormones. When they left the room, I asked them in the hallway why they would offer her hormones without knowing her. The first doctor got very defensive and said she didn’t do anything wrong. A note was in her chart from her primary care doctor that she self identifies as transgender. We were there for an adrenal issue, not a trans issue. Why would they bring that up? I was told by the senior physician that I needed therapy because I cannot accept her identity. The other doctor said that legally in the state of Pennsylvania a 9 year old could go without consent and get hormones.

pitt.substack.com/p/endocrinologist-prescribes-hormones

Young women are being told that mastectomies are cool - except they are never called mastectomies, they are called top surgery.
That sounds simple, right?

thecritic.co.uk/the-trans-fairy-tale/

Yes it would be nice FarNorth for everyone.

FarNorth

Good idea Violet Sky.
It would be nice if transwomen would do that.

All of them?

Or a very few?

Statistically a smaller percentage or bigger percentage that the GC doing it?

2 wrongs don't make it right

what about non-binary people?

What about them?
Each one of them is either female or male and should be aware of that for when it matters eg in connection with their physical health.

Good idea Violet Sky.
It would be nice if transwomen would do that.

If the concern is genuinely "women being phased out" why are trans people being blamed?

What is said on these threads and is allowed to be said unchallenged on these threads shows that is false. On every level.

Honestly prove it.

Ask for your preferred pronouns alongside other demographics and leave it there.

Ask for your safe spaces alongside safe spaces for other demographics and leave it there.

Ask for equality without taking anything from anyone else and leave it there

Being inclusive is not hard

Good post NanKate which demonstrates what we are all saying. Being concerned about women being phased out has nothing whatsoever to do with being anti trans.

We'd all know where are as you say, and life would be a lot simpler wouldn't it.

But lesbians are women. Usually. And what about non-binary people?

Och, I'm away back under my rock. This is too hard.

Thank you Robin49. ?

My late cousin was trans and my friend’s son is trans and that is fine by me, what I am incensed about is that women are being phased out. Why can’t we just have Men, Transmen, Women, Transwomen, Lesbians, Homosexuals and Bisexuals and then we all know where we are ?

Well said NanKate???

I think swearing at people who are just trying to do their jobs and show a little support and inclusivity probably won't help anything

If I am sent a letter with phrases like ‘once was a bleeder’ or ‘which pronoun do you want to be assigned to’ I am likely to reply in very strong terms, with maybe a few strong expletives. ????

Well done Doodledog and Others and JKR who are standing up for women. ?

But what you have written is not the same as saying Putin started a war because we're too "woke".
Of course not!

I wondered if there had been some misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the points raised in the article I read, is all.

snowberryZ

JaneJudge

I am tall with big hands and feet

Snap! Me too!
However, even though I have size 7 feet nd largish handsthey are still the hands and feet of a woman. And if you were to see a photo of my bigger than average hands and feet they would still be instantly recognisable as those of a woman. Not a man.
The brain is sophisticated a picking out subtle differences between the sexes.

And I bet you don’t have a deep voice or a dark shadow,

If the truth is that Putin has stirred up unrest between people to destabilise before going to war...

Well that's propoganda? Is that the right word?

Maybe people should stop falling for it?